6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

[Formidilosus]

Yea, I think the hard muscle in the shoulder limits penetration more than the Scapula, they are thin.

The thickest amount of muscle over the shoulder is about 4 inches, then a piece of bone that’s about as thick as standard cardboard. Guys are literally worried that these bullets won’t shoot through a groundhog. Think critically about it. All of this is because gun writers started this idea that elk are armor plated and bullets just “explode” when hitting 4” of flesh. It’s BS. Maybe in 1950 there were massive amounts of problems with bullets “blowing up”, now not so much. I don’t know if it’s lack of killing experience, or myths burned in from childhood, or people have just just built up these animals as something mythical- they’re not. They’re just tissue and bones.

You can take and any chambering from 6mm and up with game bullets and ammo from Walmart and stack elk.

 

[Nomosendero]

The thickest amount of muscle over the shoulder is about 4 inches, then a piece of bone that’s about as thick as standard cardboard. Guys are literally worried that these bullets won’t shoot through a groundhog. Think critically about it. All of this is because gun writers started this idea that elk are armor plated and bullets just “explode” when hitting 4” of flesh. It’s BS. Maybe in 1950 there were massive amounts of problems with bullets “blowing up”, now not so much. I don’t know if it’s lack of killing experience, or myths burned in from childhood, or people have just just built up these animals as something mythical- they’re not. They’re just tissue and bones.

You can take and any chambering from 6mm and up with game bullets and ammo from Walmart and stack elk.

My Deer kills are in the 3 digits, I don't recall a bullet being stopped in the shoulder come to think of it.
Yes, I remember one of the big writers, I would not want to mention his name CB but he and others had articles like "Cartridges for Big Deer", maybe to sell more rifles.

 

[Formidilosus]

I didn't say I dont like the ELDX, in fact I believe it was pretty clear it is our primary bullet of choice. I'm just reconsidering it's effectiveness on thicker skinned/boned Critters like elk.

Please define “thicker skinned/boned”? Because the difference between skin and front end bone on elk and western deer is millimeters, not inches.

If you or anyone has some real life experience to add about the terminal performance/penetrating capacity of a ttsx, terminal ascent, hammer hunter, style monolithic or bonded over the cup and core, I would be open to ideas.

I did above. Standard monos create relatively narrow, deep wounds. The result is on average longer times to incapacitation. I haven’t enough experience with HH’s to say, but I have not seen anything that makes me want to use them either. TA’s are good bullets, however at lower impact velocities expansion is quite minimal despite what the marketing pushes.

 

[Formidilosus]

My Deer kills are in the 3 digits, I don't recall a bull being stopped in the shoulder come to think of it.
Yes, I remember one of the big writers, I woild not want to mention his name CB but he and others had articles like "Cartridges for Big Deer", maybe to sell more rifles.

Yes. I have yet to see a single instance of a game bullet or heavy for caliber fragmenting match bullet fail to penetrate bone in the front end. There have been some spectacular entrance wounds due to extremely high MV’s and very soft bullets, yet all made it at least partially to both lungs.

 

[packgoatguy]

Please define “thicker skinned/boned”? Because the difference between skin and front end bone on elk and western deer is millimeters, not inches.





I did above. Standard monos create relatively narrow, deep wounds. The result is on average longer times to incapacitation. I haven’t enough experience with HH’s to say, but I have not seen anything that makes me want to use them either. TA’s are good bullets, however at lower impact velocities expansion is quite minimal despite what the marketing pushes.

I would be talking (from my experience) exclusively of impact velocities well over 2000 feet per second. Our big game shots have always been under 600 yards, most in the 300-400 yard range. Whether the thickness of the hide of an elk is only millimeters more than a deer or not, I have personally seen more bullet pass through shots on deer sized critters than on elk, and have seen deer sized critters fall quicker with the same bullets than an elk with similar shot placement. My limited personal perspective (fewer than 30 deer and 7 elk in the past couple years) indicates that I would prefer a bullet that retained a bit more mass, and best case even gave me an exit wound for better blood trails on the bigger critters. We havent lost one yet... knock on wood... but were we ever to have a situation where we took a shot at an elk at the edge of thick timber, if that elk has even 30-60 seconds to travel before it expires, it could mean the difference between finding it or not if there is no blood. Considering that even with PERFECT shot placement, one of these critters can still go miles, I need all the help I can get.

I never will forget the time when my friend shot an antelope buck with his bow. Shot placement was obvious, and perfect. The buck laid its head down, and appeared to expire on the spot. We thought GREAT! job done. So, we stood up from our concealed position... and apparently the buck wasnt done for. He stood up, and followed several does over the skyline. Ended up tracking him for over a mile. My friend put one more arrow in him. When we were gutting the buck, we found the first arrow hole (complete pass through mind you) and a perfect broadhead shaped hole through the center of its heart. No joke! It went over a mile, and over an hour of time with a broadhead sized hole in its heart! Bottom line, I need every advantage I can get to ensure that my bullet does the job, and even when conditions mess it up a bit, I still need to find the animal.

 

[Fatcamp]

2 antelope, a mule deer, and a whitetail.

All between 250-300 yards.

143gr ELD-X

None went for than a couple leaps.

In this same rime frame I have shot 2 mule deer with a .300WM. I saw no real difference in how they died.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I would be talking (from my experience) exclusively of impact velocities well over 2000 feet per second. Our big game shots have always been under 600 yards, most in the 300-400 yard range. Whether the thickness of the hide of an elk is only millimeters more than a deer or not, I have personally seen more bullet pass through shots on deer sized critters than on elk, and have seen deer sized critters fall quicker with the same bullets than an elk with similar shot placement. My limited personal perspective (fewer than 30 deer and 7 elk in the past couple years) indicates that I would prefer a bullet that retained a bit more mass, and best case even gave me an exit wound for better blood trails on the bigger critters. We havent lost one yet... knock on wood... but were we ever to have a situation where we took a shot at an elk at the edge of thick timber, if that elk has even 30-60 seconds to travel before it expires, it could mean the difference between finding it or not if there is no blood. Considering that even with PERFECT shot placement, one of these critters can still go miles, I need all the help I can get.

I never will forget the time when my friend shot an antelope buck with his bow. Shot placement was obvious, and perfect. The buck laid its head down, and appeared to expire on the spot. We thought GREAT! job done. So, we stood up from our concealed position... and apparently the buck wasnt done for. He stood up, and followed several does over the skyline. Ended up tracking him for over a mile. My friend put one more arrow in him. When we were gutting the buck, we found the first arrow hole (complete pass through mind you) and a perfect broadhead shaped hole through the center of its heart. No joke! It went over a mile, and over an hour of time with a broadhead sized hole in its heart! Bottom line, I need every advantage I can get to ensure that my bullet does the job, and even when conditions mess it up a bit, I still need to find the animal.

How are you able to average killing 15 deer per year? 30 deer in 2 years just doesn’t seem possible unless you’re maybe doing some sort of depredation work?

 

[woods89]

I would be talking (from my experience) exclusively of impact velocities well over 2000 feet per second. Our big game shots have always been under 600 yards, most in the 300-400 yard range. Whether the thickness of the hide of an elk is only millimeters more than a deer or not, I have personally seen more bullet pass through shots on deer sized critters than on elk, and have seen deer sized critters fall quicker with the same bullets than an elk with similar shot placement. My limited personal perspective (fewer than 30 deer and 7 elk in the past couple years) indicates that I would prefer a bullet that retained a bit more mass, and best case even gave me an exit wound for better blood trails on the bigger critters. We havent lost one yet... knock on wood... but were we ever to have a situation where we took a shot at an elk at the edge of thick timber, if that elk has even 30-60 seconds to travel before it expires, it could mean the difference between finding it or not if there is no blood. Considering that even with PERFECT shot placement, one of these critters can still go miles, I need all the help I can get.

I never will forget the time when my friend shot an antelope buck with his bow. Shot placement was obvious, and perfect. The buck laid its head down, and appeared to expire on the spot. We thought GREAT! job done. So, we stood up from our concealed position... and apparently the buck wasnt done for. He stood up, and followed several does over the skyline. Ended up tracking him for over a mile. My friend put one more arrow in him. When we were gutting the buck, we found the first arrow hole (complete pass through mind you) and a perfect broadhead shaped hole through the center of its heart. No joke! It went over a mile, and over an hour of time with a broadhead sized hole in its heart! Bottom line, I need every advantage I can get to ensure that my bullet does the job, and even when conditions mess it up a bit, I still need to find the animal.

Every heart shot animal I've seen has been dead under 50 yds.

If dead right there, no tracking involved, was my 1#, I'd be handloading 130 TMK. They are nasty, in my experience. You will probably have to trim a little meat. And I personally would have no issue shooting them into elk. YMMV.

 

[packgoatguy]

How are you able to average killing 15 deer per year? 30 deer in 2 years just doesn’t seem possible unless you’re maybe doing some sort of depredation work?

I guess "couple" years should have been a "few" years. Last 3-4 id say, But, when I say "personal perspective" Im referring to the animals ive been there to personally witness the shot using one of my rifles and my ammo, either of my own doing or because it was a hunter I was helping... I have six kids, 4 of them hunting age youth (as of this last year), plus several nieces I take hunting, plus my wife, brother in laws, and a few other newbie hunters or friends of the family Ive taken out. This season alone was 4 deer and 4 elk for our fam, plus 4 more for close friends/family. But yes, in Idaho, we do have the opportunity to put in for "extra tags" for whitetail does and cow elk in some areas.

 

[BjornF16]

6.5 Grendel shooting 129 Interbonds

200 yards

 

[BjornF16]

6.5 Grendel shooting 129 SST

100 yard neck shots:

 

[Nomosendero]

I don't shoot a Grendel but I would likely pick an SST over the Interbond at those velocities but what di you observe?

 

[Wrench]

The thickest amount of muscle over the shoulder is about 4 inches, then a piece of bone that’s about as thick as standard cardboard. Guys are literally worried that these bullets won’t shoot through a groundhog. Think critically about it. All of this is because gun writers started this idea that elk are armor plated and bullets just “explode” when hitting 4” of flesh. It’s BS. Maybe in 1950 there were massive amounts of problems with bullets “blowing up”, now not so much. I don’t know if it’s lack of killing experience, or myths burned in from childhood, or people have just just built up these animals as something mythical- they’re not. They’re just tissue and bones.

You can take and any chambering from 6mm and up with game bullets and ammo from Walmart and stack elk.

This is EXACTLY why I saved the pic of the pair of scapulas. Lots of chatter about it not being possible.

No problem.

 

[BjornF16]

I don't shoot a Grendel but I would likely pick an SST over the Interbond at those velocities but what di you observe?

Interbond hit deer would run a little more than the SST (comparing double lung shots). Neck shot were all DRT regardless of IB or SST.

Knowing what I know NOW from reading here, I would skip the IB and stick with the SST (between the two). Have also used 123 SST, 115 Bergers (no longer available), 120 NBT. If I go back to the Grendel, I’ll likely try TMKs.

 

[Nomosendero]

That would have been my guess

 

[BjornF16]

Going pig hunting next month...any late season pics?

 

[roosiebull]

Going pig hunting next month...any late season pics?

not yet for me, i have went out trying to call a lion a few afternoons, but have not got one killed yet in 22'... late week/weekend i plan to do some more calling.

good luck on pigs! i'm a little jealous, i would really like having access to pigs to hunt, they look fun, and assume are good tablefare

 

[Miflatlander91]

Pronghorn right about 300 yards
Berger 140 elite hunter hand load mv around 2800
Would not say it's easy on meat


Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

 

[idahodave]

My word the sanctimony is heavy on this thread.

Count me a fan of the 143 ELD-X through any accurate 6.5. Watched the neighbor kid roll a fat, muley doe a couple of months ago at 300 with his 6.5 Super Lite. About a 1” exit hole with carnage between it and the caliber-sized entrance.

Dave

 

[NathanDarke]

Which 22lr ammo for hunting small game..