6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

[Formidilosus]

Few more elk, 6.5 CM with 143gr ELD-X.

1,975fps impact, this is the exit with bullet that was caught under the skin-









2,185fps impact-

Entrance-





Exit through scapula-





2,190fps impact-

Entrance point of scapula hitting directly on the joint-


With the fascia cleared back to see the actual wound-







The ELD-X remains to be one of the best, if not the best overall bullet for 6.5CM for use that includes a bit farther shots than most. Everyone is so worried about lack of penetration of what happens “if you hit a shoulder”- It annihilates “shoulders”.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Sorry but this thread keeps making me think of this meme

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Sorry but this thread keeps making me think of this meme

View attachment 364569

That’s why i shoot a .260

 

[roosiebull]

Sorry but this thread keeps making me think of this meme

View attachment 364569

If you start brainstorming names that would suit you well as a female, you may want to proactively unsubscribe from this thread

 

[KSTiger]

Sorry but this thread keeps making me think of this meme

View attachment 364569

Same people triggered by the creedmoor will tell you how great the swede is…

 

[KSTiger]

Few more elk, 6.5 CM with 143gr ELD-X.

1,975fps impact, this is the exit with bullet that was caught under the skin-
View attachment 364360

View attachment 364361

View attachment 364363




2,185fps impact-

Entrance-
View attachment 364364

View attachment 364365


Exit through scapula-
View attachment 364368




2,190fps impact-

Entrance point of scapula hitting directly on the joint-View attachment 364366


With the fascia cleared back to see the actual wound-
View attachment 364367






The ELD-X remains to be one of the best, if not the best overall bullet for 6.5CM for use that includes a bit farther shots than most. Everyone is so worried about lack of penetration of what happens “if you hit a shoulder”- It annihilates “shoulders”.

Form, how would you describe the bullets performance for closer shots in the 2500-2200 fps range?

 

[Formidilosus]

Form, how would you describe the bullets performance for closer shots in the 2500-2200 fps range?

I would describe them as effective, most would probably say “destructive”.

 

[KSTiger]

I would describe them as effective, most would probably say “destructive”.

Would you have a different 6.5 bullet recommendation for those closer ranges?

 

[260madman]

260 100gr NBT about 30 yard shot. Through both shoulders. The destruction pics are on google images.




120 Amax close range, maybe 35 yards in the shoulder and zippered open


180-190 yards 120 CL Ruger Mark2. He maoved when I shot so hit the humerus. What followed I blamed on the bullet by it was all me. Still dead.


100gr NBT at a freckle under 3500fps from a 28” barrel. It’s my paper puncher and yeah I hunt with all of them. Kneeling in the snow bank off of my garden stake shooting sticks at 540 yards. Dropped and twitched in it’s it’s tracks.


About 180-190 yards with my 6.5Jesus chassis rifle and a 140NBT.

 

[Dobermann]

The ELD-X remains to be one of the best, if not the best overall bullet for 6.5CM for use that includes a bit farther shots than most. Everyone is so worried about lack of penetration of what happens “if you hit a shoulder”- It annihilates “shoulders”.

Hi Form, Can you comment here on the ELD-Ms compared to the ELD-Xs ... pretty sure you've covered this before, but might be worth keeping here with this thread too ...

 

[Dobermann]

... you may want to proactively unsubscribe from this thread

And the signal-to-noise ratio would increase, which would be a good thing ...

 

[260madman]

Wife’s 7pt about 200 yards. 260 with a 120 Etip. Her blind is in the background.


260 again. 120 CL about 100 yards through the corn strip that was 4 rows deep. Necked it and dropped.


Doe about 185. 6.5 Jesus 140NAB. Didn’t twitch.



I’ve shot a couple truckloads of deer with 260 Rem and don’t have a lot of pics because of phones from back in the day that didn’t take a pic that was worth a crap.

They work. The end.

 

[Formidilosus]

Would you have a different 6.5 bullet recommendation for those closer ranges?

No. I wouldn’t. I generally prefer bullets that upset and fragment early and consistently along the wound path, achieving sufficient penetration by using heavy for caliber. I actually prefer the ELD-M and TMK to the ELD-X, however recognize the ELD-X’s performance.

If I wanted less meat damage, I would go down in cartridge/caliber, not go to a tougher bullet.

 

[Formidilosus]

Hi Form, Can you comment here on the ELD-Ms compared to the ELD-Xs ... pretty sure you've covered this before, but might be worth keeping here with this thread too ...

ELD-M’s fragment a bit more than ELD-X’s of the same general weight class. They feature a slightly larger, if not sometimes- though not always- a bit shallower wound than the ELD-X. Both sufficient for large NA game. When impact speeds above 3,000fps happen, fragmentation is greater and hence penetration is generally reduced. From 2,800’ish to 2,000’ish FPS wounds are comparatively large and 16”-20” of penetration is normal. From 2,000-1,800’ish FPS impact, good upset with less fragmentation occurs, penetration goes up a bit, and overall wounds are solid.

 

[packgoatguy]

Some more anecdotal evidence; between myself and my teenage boys and a niece, we have taken at least 10 deer with the 143gr ELDX 6.5 Creedmoor Precision Hunter ammo these past couple seasons. Any that took a hit in the vitals were dead within 75 yards. Most bullets passed through. Most shots were between 250 and 350 yards.

We have also taken several elk with the 200gr ELDX out of a 300 win mag. Three of the four dropped on the spot, the fourth went about 200 yards. It's the fourth one that gives me pause about the eldx for elk sized game...

This happened on a late cow tag last week, just before new years: my son took an excellent 450 yard shot (prone/supported) on a cow elk. In spite of what I would argue was perfect bullet placement behind the front shoulder (see pic), and a perfect broadside, the cow still went a couple hundred yards, and took nearly 4 minutes to expire (couldn't take a mercy shot, as her exit took her well out of his range, and didn't want to risk hitting one of the other elk nearby). Upon inspection, the bullet hit a rib and split in two. One piece went through both lungs, and one went sideways into her guts. Neither exited the otherside. Somehow, she was able to maintain lung pressure for a while, as she was coughing up blood in her last moments. No blood trail whatsoever. It made me wonder if a more robust/bonded style of bullet would have been a better option. If the bullet had held together enough to go through the rib, through the lungs, and still make an exit hole, I can't see how she could have maintained lung pressure... and not only would there have been a "just in case" blood trail, but she probably would have dropped on the spot.

As I've thought about the other 3 kills, all three of them would have been just as effective had the bullet been a less fragmenting design. One was a broadside double lung (one fragment did exit) and she dropped on the spot from 350 yards. One was a quartering too shot through the thin part of the front shoulder into both lungs (calf at 260 yards). A shot on a bull at 300 yards dropped him, but my son's aim was a bit high, and it hit spine.

The same 300 win with the eldx bullets has taken a half dozen deer as well. Always devastating damage. Our only complaint is that at close range (for a mercy shot) it will cause unnecessary meat loss, as the bullet acts like a grenade. My wife made this mistake a few years ago. She had made a bad shot on a 2 point buck. He appeared down for the count from 350 yards away... but when we got in close, he rose up on his front legs. She shot him head on in the neck at 60 yards. We found lead sprinkled throughout both front quarters and half the backstraps.

All told, I think I will stick with the eldx for deer, as it has never let us down, especially in a lighter caliber. However, for elk I might switch to a ttsx, terminal ascent, or hammer hunter for some additional insurance and maximum penetration.

One more bit of info if relevant; bullets we've recovered seem to be around 40-50% of the original weight. Sometimes we don't find anything though, especially when it hits bone.

In contrast, another son took a cow this year with a 28 nosler and a 195 berger. About 3000fps mv. 340 yard shot. He misjudged a stiff crosswind, and hit her just behind the vitals. Put 3 shots in her, but we couldn't even tell if she had been hit. She started acting a bit funny after a few minutes and laid down. He finally worked his way into 150 yards for a mercy head shot. Upon inspection, the bullets made a mess of her liver and guts of course, but inspite of not hitting any bone, the largest piece of bullet we could find weighed only about 30gr. Of course there was no exit, and zero blood trail. I have no idea what would have happened if he had hit bone, but I'm a bit leary that it might not make it past a solid shoulder hit or a rib.

Pic one of the deer is my 2nd son's little buck this year at 330 yards. 6.5 cm eldx, complete pass through. The buck was facing the other direction and spun around upon impact, and the blood you see is the spray from the exit wound. This buck only went about 75 yards, and was one of the most impressive blood trails I've ever seen.

Second pic is the shot placement entry hole on the cow my oldest son took (the one that went a couple hundred yards in spite of a 200gr eldx double lung)

 

[Formidilosus]

We have also taken several elk with the 200gr ELDX out of a 300 win mag. Three of the four dropped on the spot, the fourth went about 200 yards. It's the fourth one that gives me pause about the eldx for elk sized game...

This happened on a late cow tag last week, just before new years: my son took an excellent 450 yard shot (prone/supported) on a cow elk. In spite of what I would argue was perfect bullet placement behind the front shoulder (see pic), and a perfect broadside, the cow still went a couple hundred yards, and took nearly 4 minutes to expire (couldn't take a mercy shot, as her exit took her well out of his range, and didn't want to risk hitting one of the other elk nearby). Upon inspection, the bullet hit a rib and split in two. One piece went through both lungs, and one went sideways into her guts. Neither exited the otherside. Somehow, she was able to maintain lung pressure for a while, as she was coughing up blood in her last moments. No blood trail whatsoever. It made me wonder if a more robust/bonded style of bullet would have been a better option. If the bullet had held together enough to go through the rib, through the lungs, and still make an exit hole, I can't see how she could have maintained lung pressure... and not only would there have been a "just in case" blood trail, but she probably would have dropped on the spot.

If you don’t like the bullet, ok, but the highlighted parts is what I am addressing- no. If you shoot enough animals you will see that with every bullet made. People act like animals don’t have their own emotions and drive. This is not correct, just like people or dogs- elk have differing mental states. Going to a TTSX won’t guarantee an exit, and the Terminal Ascent is probably as likely or less than the ELD-X to exit due to maintaining weight with a large frontal diameter.


As far as bullets failing to penetrate shoulders (scapula), it makes me wonder if people have never deboned one. It’s thin, really, really thin. There is nothing there to stop any game bullet from going through.

 

[packgoatguy]

If you don’t like the bullet, ok, but the highlighted parts is what I am addressing- no. If you shoot enough animals you will see that with every bullet made. People act like animals don’t have their own emotions and drive. This is not correct, just like people or dogs- elk have differing mental states. Going to a TTSX won’t guarantee an exit, and the Terminal Ascent is probably as likely or less than the ELD-X to exit due to maintaining weight with a large frontal diameter.


As far as bullets failing to penetrate shoulders (scapula), it makes me wonder if people have never deboned one. It’s thin, really, really thin. There is nothing there to stop any game bullet from going through.

I didn't say I dont like the ELDX, in fact I believe it was pretty clear it is our primary bullet of choice. I'm just reconsidering it's effectiveness on thicker skinned/boned Critters like elk. I've got no problem with it on deer. Except that I plan on carrying either a pistol for mercy close up shots or a solid or bonded bullet to put in the chamber for close up shots.

If you or anyone has some real life experience to add about the terminal performance/penetrating capacity of a ttsx, terminal ascent, hammer hunter, style monolithic or bonded over the cup and core, I would be open to ideas.

 

[woods89]

I didn't say I dont like the ELDX, in fact I believe it was pretty clear it is our primary bullet of choice. I'm just reconsidering it's effectiveness on thicker skinned/boned Critters like elk. I've got no problem with it on deer. Except that I plan on carrying either a pistol for mercy close up shots or a solid or bonded bullet to put in the chamber for close up shots.

If you or anyone has some real life experience to add about the terminal performance/penetrating capacity of a ttsx, terminal ascent, hammer hunter, style monolithic or bonded over the cup and core, I would be open to ideas.

Thanks for posting in the detail that you did!

I can't speak to ELD-X as I've never shot one into game. I tried some 143s and they didn't shoot quite as well as Bergers in my rifle, so I've shot Bergers and a few TMK ever since.

As to harder bullets, I used to shoot 125 gr Partitions when my rifle was still a 1-9 twist 260. I actually shot my biggest whitetail right through the heart with one, with predictable results. But I will say I also lost a few whitetails with them. This was back when I didn't shoot nearly as much, and the rodeos were due to my shot placement skills. I can tell you from experience that if you hit one wrong with a Partition, you can be in for a long track job.

I've since had good luck with 140 gr and 156 gr Bergers, and 130 TMK. The biggest factor in my success was just shooting more, though, and I think I could shoot those 125 gr Partitions today and do just fine. I don't think I would get as fast of kills, though, and that's what keeps me shooting a softer bullet.

I'm going to be a little careful giving thoughts on elk, because while I had good success with a 156 Berger last fall, as seen at the start of this thread, my experience is still quite limited.

 

[Nomosendero]

Yea, I think the hard muscle in the shoulder limits penetration more than the Scapula, they are thin.
I agree that the wide mushroom of the Ter. Ascent can limit penetration but the new 215 gr. in 30 cal. could do the trick and with a better BC. With this bullet I am only talking about big animals.

For Deer the 143 ELDX seems hard to beat, I have a couple of boxes on the shelf to try in my 6.5 PRC.
I also bought some 139 Scenars, I am eager to try those too, I see some good results on the fire with
those: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ased-via-scenar-bullet-pix-please#Post4977783
Long thread, 2011 until now

 

[woods89]

Yea, I think the hard muscle in the shoulder limits penetration more than the Scapula, they are thin.
I agree that the wide mushroom of the Ter. Ascent can limit penetration but the new 215 gr. in 30 cal. could do the trick and with a better BC. With this bullet I am only talking about big animals.

For Deer the 143 ELDX seems hard to beat, I have a couple of boxes on the shelf to try in my 6.5 PRC.
I also bought some 139 Scenars, I am eager to try those too, I see some good results on the fire with
those: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ased-via-scenar-bullet-pix-please#Post4977783
Long thread, 2011 until now

I've never shot them myself, but I don't think I've ever heard anything negative about 139 gr Scenars. I know of some people who use them very effectively!