6.5 creed magnum

[nm.otter]

Easy there with the ad hominems. This place runs on data, and you probably broke into the wrong rec room.

 

[R@crx37372]

Easy there with the ad hominems. This place runs on data, and you probably broke into the wrong rec room.

So where is the data?

 

[omicron1792]

So where is the data?

There are literally thousands of pictures here of dead animals, many elk sized or larger, killed with less than 1500lbs of energy.

And yes, pictures and necropsy of dead animals is way way way more data than some article out of a magazine.

Thread '.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.'
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-mountain-goat-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/

 

[The Guide]

Yeah, so basically both are examples from people much more experienced than you or I. And yes, i used a search engine for the details. Meanwhile morons like you decide to talk shit, but have no real answers of your own or data to support it. Typical fud backbencher. So let's hear your numbers and data to back your argument

I just kill shyt. Get all up in your feels about it. Guess what, I hunt with 6mm and 22 caliber bullets too. You going to tell me that all my dead animals didn't die due to not enough energy? Animals die when an expanding bullet is placed through the vital organs. Your reliance upon other people's beliefs means you have limited experience of your own. I know what works cause I've tried new things.

Calling me a "fud"? You're circus level clown material. I may have been born 50 years ago today and started hunting big game in '88 but I've always been one to ask why and no one can give a real answer as to what amount of energy it takes to kill a thing. Anything over the amount of force it takes to break the barrier of the skin of a thing, can and will kill it given the right circumstances. I mean my cousin killed a moose with a .177 pellet rifle while trying to haze it off from a hay stack (approved hazing technique by FWP with no charges filed). Don't claim something won't work unless you've actually done it yourself. I bet the 3 elk my brother has killed with 55 grain VMAX from a 223 while predator hunting (including two 6x6 bulls) didn't die and we were eating ghost meat right?

Jay

 

[R@crx37372]

There are literally thousands of pictures here of dead animals, many elk sized or larger, killed with less than 1500lbs of energy.

You can kill an elk with a pellet gun if you're close enough. Pictures of dead elk dont mean a whole lot unless you count all the ones that weren't recovered in the mix, im sure not many will fess up to those though. Shot placement, terminal ballistics and penetration destroying bone and organs are what kill or stop an animal with a rifle. Meanwhile, nowhere did I say something with less than 1500 ft lbs wont kill an elk btw, I said thats the widely known recommended minimum.

 

[R@crx37372]

There are literally thousands of pictures here of dead animals, many elk sized or larger, killed with less than 1500lbs of energy.

And yes, pictures and necropsy of dead animals is way way way more data than some article out of a magazine.

Thread '.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.'
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-mountain-goat-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/

What about the ones shot with a 223 and were never recovered? How many of those are there?

 

[omicron1792]

You can kill an elk with a pellet gun if you're close enough. Pictures of dead elk dont mean a whole lot unless you count all the ones that weren't recovered in the mix, im sure not many will fess up to those though. Shot placement, terminal ballistics and penetration destroying bone and organs are what kill or stop an animal with a rifle. Meanwhile, nowhere did I say something with less than 1500 ft lbs wont kill an elk btw, I said thats the widely known recommended minimum.

Can you kill 1000’s of them?

Carry on my man.

 

[nm.otter]

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-mountain-goat-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/

Start here.

 

[omicron1792]

What about the ones shot with a 223 and were never recovered? How many of those are there?

Been talked about 10000000 times.

If you said “screw it, I will show them,” and went hunting with a 223. And the animal was lost and there was a rodeo, would you come back here and post about it?

You bet your ass you would.

Yet the board is not full of those posts. Weird huh.

Btw. I used to sound like you.

 

[R@crx37372]

I just kill shyt. Get all up in your feels about it. Guess what, I hunt with 6mm and 22 caliber bullets too. You going to tell me that all my dead animals didn't die due to not enough energy? Animals die when an expanding bullet is placed through the vital organs. Your reliance upon other people's beliefs means you have limited experience of your own. I know what works cause I've tried new things.

Calling me a "fud"? You're circus level clown material. I may have been born 50 years ago today and started hunting big game in '88 but I've always been one to ask why and no one can give a real answer as to what amount of energy it takes to kill a thing. Anything over the amount of force it takes to break the barrier of the skin of a thing, can and will kill it given the right circumstances. I mean my cousin killed a moose with a .177 pellet rifle while trying to haze it off from a hay stack (approved hazing technique by FWP with no charges filed). Don't claim something won't work unless you've actually done it yourself. I bet the 3 elk my brother has killed with 55 grain VMAX from a 223 while predator hunting (including two 6x6 bulls) didn't die and we were eating ghost meat right?

Jay

Well Jay, obviously you didnt read what i wrote. I never said under 1500lbs wont kill an elk or that it wont work. I said its the recommed minimum. Are you saying your anticdotal examples are better or more researched data than the 1500-2000 ftlb, or the taylor knockout factor formula? And like I said, im sure no one claims the animals they didn't recover. Are you claiming every elk you or your brother shot with 223 cal projectiles were recovered? Do you feel a 22 creed or 223 is just as good as a 7 mag or 3006? Which would you recommend as an elk rifel?Or even from the same caliber perspective is a 223 just as effective as a 22 creed given the 22 creeds energy advantage? Using your reasoning I caught a 10+lb bass on a 1/8 ounce mister twister jig while crappie fishing, that doesn't mean its the right lure for catching trophy bass.

 

[R@crx37372]

Been talked about 10000000 times.

If you said “screw it, I will show them,” and went hunting with a 223. And the animal was lost and there was a rodeo, would you come back here and post about it?

You bet your ass you would.

Yet the board is not full of those posts. Weird huh.

Btw. I used to sound like you.

Thanks for making my point

 

[The Guide]

So many "what about-izm's" in one statement. I'll break it apart for you.

Well Jay, obviously you didnt read what i wrote. I never said under 1500lbs wont kill an elk or that it wont work. I said its the recommed minimum. Are you saying your anticdotal examples are better or more researched data than the 1500-2000 ftlb, or the taylor knockout factor formula?

You stated that the 156 Berger from a 6.5 Creedmoor was not a "viable" bullet in brass cases. That is false. Then you said it would only kill an elk to 200 yards in a brass case and 475 yards in the new +Peak cases. That is again false. You made those numbers up based on someone else's made up numbers. If you want to live and die on 1500 to 2000 pounds of energy or the Taylor knockout factor, go for it but neither of those are imperial data in MY experience or opinion.

And like I said, im sure no one claims the animals they didn't recover. Are you claiming every elk you or your brother shot with 223 cal projectiles were recovered?

Yes. Every elk that my brother or I have fired a .224 caliber bullet at has been recovered. I have not pulled the trigger on an elk and not recovered it since about 1993. Shot at a cow elk about 250 yards away with my 270 Winchester. I was dead on using a branch on a pine tree as a rest. Shot through a limb right in front of the barrel I couldn't see in the 4 power fixed Leupold scope.

Do you feel a 22 creed or 223 is just as good as a 7 mag or 3006? Which would you recommend as an elk rifel?

Yes. Any rifle in the hand is an elk rifle for me. Probably wouldn't purposely hunt one with a rimfire 22 but any centerfire rifle cartridge would fill the tag. Might just have to get closer if the wind is blowing.

Or even from the same caliber perspective is a 223 just as effective as a 22 creed given the 22 creeds energy advantage?

Yes. Only difference to me is velocity thresholds for the specific bullets being used. Carried both my 223 and my 22 Creedmoor all of last falls general season in Montana. I bumped up to a magnum primer cartridge for the late season hunts just because I don't want to worry about any hang fires when it is below zero.

Using your reasoning I caught a 10+lb bass on a 1/8 ounce mister twister jig while crappie fishing, that doesn't mean its the right lure for catching trophy bass.

Light line and small jigs are great tools for catching trophy bass in areas that don't have northern pike, pickeral, or gar. There was a Japanese fella that won a bunch of money in the BassMasters using 6# test and micro jigs. Big fish eat little baits too. Fishing with light line and tackle is a great way to target pressured fish including trophy bass, if you have enough experience.

Jay

 

[R@crx37372]

So many "what about-izm's" in one statement. I'll break it apart for you.



You stated that the 156 Berger from a 6.5 Creedmoor was not a "viable" bullet in brass cases. That is false. Then you said it would only kill an elk to 200 yards in a brass case and 475 yards in the new +Peak cases. That is again false. You made those numbers up based on someone else's made up numbers. If you want to live and die on 1500 to 2000 pounds of energy or the Taylor knockout factor, go for it but neither of those are imperial data in MY experience or opinion.

Yes. Every elk that my brother or I have fired a .224 caliber bullet at has been recovered. I have not pulled the trigger on an elk and not recovered it since about 1993. Shot at a cow elk about 250 yards away with my 270 Winchester. I was dead on using a branch on a pine tree as a rest. Shot through a limb right in front of the barrel I couldn't see in the 4 power fixed Leupold scope.

Yes. Any rifle in the hand is an elk rifle for me. Probably wouldn't purposely hunt one with a rimfire 22 but any centerfire rifle cartridge would fill the tag. Might just have to get closer if the wind is blowing.

Yes. Only difference to me is velocity thresholds for the specific bullets being used. Carried both my 223 and my 22 Creedmoor all of last falls general season in Montana. I bumped up to a magnum primer cartridge for the late season hunts just because I don't want to worry about any hang fires when it is below zero.

Light line and small jigs are great tools for catching trophy bass in areas that don't have northern pike, pickeral, or gar. There was a Japanese fella that won a bunch of money in the BassMasters using 6# test and micro jigs. Big fish eat little baits too. Fishing with light line and tackle is a great way to target pressured fish including trophy bass, if you have enough experience.

Jay

You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. In my first comment I was very simply saying that the new +peak ammo extends capability of a standard 6.5 cm by 250 to 300 yards and used the data the other posted as a comparison. Secondly I didn't say 1500 ftlbs, I said 1800 so obviously you didn't read it or you lack comprehension. Then another poster asked where I got the number from and I gave him the well documented and published 1500 to 2000ftlb example as well as the taylor knock out factor as another alternative.
As far as not losing any animals with a 223 with vmax's, bullshit, you'll never convince thats not an outright lie. If you choose to hunt with underpowered cartridges, more power to you. You still haven't provided and data or back up for your argument, just like i said you wouldn't. All hear say that doesnt follow facts or common sense.
Just because you can do something, or maybe even did do it once or twice doesn't mean its a good idea. Kinda like banging meth head chiks without a condom, might be fun and something you don't tell your buddies about, sooner or later thats going to catch up to you, one way or another.

 

[Bluefish]

Can you define "elk energy" and derive how the required "elk energy" is calculated? I'm not sure where that number comes from. Thanks!

Jay

While I no longer believe energy is a reliable indicator of on animal performance, states like CO do have a 1000 ftlbs requirement at 100 yards. I thought I had read that they recommended more for elk. I now believe that a lot less than that can be lethal with the right bullet and velocity.

 

[The Guide]

If you can say I'm a liar, I can say you are a retard for thinking 1500, 1800, or 2000 pounds is required to kill an elk. I'm not going to change your mind and your not going change my mind. Go kill some elk and find out on your own oh great internet warrior. They died pretty easily.

As far as not losing any animals with a 223 with vmax's, bullshit, you'll never convince thats not an outright lie.

You lead a far more adventurous life than me. I've never done anything like that so I'll have to take your word on it as the subject matter champion.

Kinda like banging meth head chiks without a condom, might be fun and something you don't tell your buddies about, sooner or later thats going to catch up to you, one way or another.

 

[R@crx37372]

While I no longer believe energy is a reliable indicator of on animal performance, states like CO do have a 1000 ftlbs requirement at 100 yards. I thought I had read that they recommended more for elk. I now believe that a lot less than that can be lethal with the right bullet and velocity.

I agree it may not be the top indicator, shot placement is the #1 predictor of a quick clean kill, followed by the terminal performance of the bullet. Plenty of people choose a rifle that has too much energy and cant shoot because of recoil induced flinch and lack of practice

 

[nm.otter]

even better with a glass of wine.

 

[TxxAgg]

Somebody is up past his bed time and needs to give his mom her phone back.

 

[R@crx37372]

If you can say I'm a liar, I can say you are a retard for thinking 1500, 1800, or 2000 pounds is required to kill an elk. I'm not going to change your mind and your not going change my mind. Go kill some elk and find out on your own oh great internet warrior. They died pretty easily.



You lead a far more adventurous life than me. I've never done anything like that so I'll have to take your word on it as the subject matter champion.

Again with the lack of reading comprehension and misstating what I said. Nowhere did I say that those energies are a requirement but you continueto do that because you cant counter the informationwith fact. Those are the well known recommended energies by multiple sources. You have yet to produce any for the contrary. If what you're doing works stick with it, but in my opinion your living in a very small operational windows with those choices. Why restrict yourself to shorter ranges and limited shot angles when there are more capable options?

 

[nm.otter]

A quick search led me to believe some here may have missed the allusion: