.410 viable at this point?

[Rich M]

I would say yes, the .410 is now viable. Those tungsten pellets changed a lot of things. It is amazing that folks are talking about full penetration on a broadside deer at 75 yards with BB tungsten. That's just nuts.

Tungsten goes up to size #11, which is like basically dust and would probably be death on small game to 30-40 yards.

 

[doc holiday13]

Turkey and squirrel is the only thing I'd use a .410 for... but I've already got a micro gauge shotgun.. 28g.. 90% as good as a 20g with a much lower weight gun. 2x better than a 410 because you can get near 2x more payload for the same recoil

 

[Axlrod]

Turkey and squirrel is the only thing I'd use a .410 for... but I've already got a micro gauge shotgun.. 28g.. 90% as good as a 20g with a much lower weight gun. 2x better than a 410 because you can get near 2x more payload for the same recoil

I hunt with 28/12/20/10/410 in that aprox. order. But recoil is physics. If you plug 2x the payload @ the same velo and gun weight it will not be the same recoil.

 

[Kurts86]

I would say .410 is a lot more viable now because of TSS shot and manufacturers making modern, affordable 410’s with interchangeable choke systems.

Even 5-10 years ago you would be hard pressed to find something between a single shot fixed choke 410 and a dedicated skeet O/U target gun costing thousands of dollars and there are lots of options.

 

[doc holiday13]

I hunt with 28/12/20/10/410 in that aprox. order. But recoil is physics. If you plug 2x the payload @ the same velo and gun weight it will not be the same recoil.

sorry I forgot that some people could actually tell the difference in 1# of recoil and 2# of recoil :eyeroll:

 

[Fetty Wapiti]

Not "most" bird hunting, as that would include chukar, pheasant, grouse, and waterfowl as well.

Dove and quail? Yes.

To get back to the OP's question, if you want a lighter gun, a 20 gauge is about as small as you can reliably go (and you still give up SOME performance). After that, you have to start using expensive, performance-enhancing ammunition like TSS to even attempt to replicate performance of the larger bores.

Now of course, there are plenty of people who will argue that a 410 or whatever works just fine for them. The fact of the matter is, you can see effectiveness drop off as shotgun bore gets smaller and smaller. Anyone who tells you otherwise hasn't watched enough birds fall or is lying. A 12 gauge is noticeably more effective than a 20 gauge on pheasants and waterfowl. A 20 gauge is noticeably more effective than a 28 gauge on chukar and grouse.

You can still have great days of shooting with the smaller bores, but the guys using those guns are picking their shots. All else being equal, moving to larger gauges enables you to make longer shots. Extra reach will put more birds in the bag, and more quickly too.

Great response, I would however argue that with the proper shot size and range adjustments... very little difference between a 12 and a 20. Performance is also more nuanced. Weight of the gun in the field, swing weight, pellet density, and range. A .410 is great for specific things... it is a specialist. Just as a 12 is a generalist that is great for specific uses but cumbersome and overkill for most applications. They all kill birds, but a .410 is def not a good gun for all around bird shooting.

 

[Wags]

I think all of you should stop using them and stop reloading for them so I can get ammo and components for mine....

 

[UpTop]

For 90% of bird hunters, no. A lot more goes into than having super shot available. For turkeys where the target is standing most of the time, sure. For wing shooting it’s mostly irresponsible for all but the very best of shooters and even then it should be considered a novelty

 

[TheGDog]

So quick question... back in the day, when people were starting their kids off with .410's... in terms of hunting... and before all the heavier than lead options... what game species did parents allow their kid to try to gun for?

 

[ssgjpd]

Not "most" bird hunting, as that would include chukar, pheasant, grouse, and waterfowl as well.

Dove and quail? Yes.

To get back to the OP's question, if you want a lighter gun, a 20 gauge is about as small as you can reliably go (and you still give up SOME performance). After that, you have to start using expensive, performance-enhancing ammunition like TSS to even attempt to replicate performance of the larger bores.

Now of course, there are plenty of people who will argue that a 410 or whatever works just fine for them. The fact of the matter is, you can see effectiveness drop off as shotgun bore gets smaller and smaller. Anyone who tells you otherwise hasn't watched enough birds fall or is lying. A 12 gauge is noticeably more effective than a 20 gauge on pheasants and waterfowl. A 20 gauge is noticeably more effective than a 28 gauge on chukar and grouse.

You can still have great days of shooting with the smaller bores, but the guys using those guns are picking their shots. All else being equal, moving to larger gauges enables you to make longer shots. Extra reach will put more birds in the bag, and more quickly too.

Yes you are correct and my wording could have been a little better. I have not hunted pheasant, grouse or chukar but have shot waterfowl with my .410.

Granted I am a little more selective in m shots, but its more than capable for me.

If it came down to a single gauge/bore for bird hunting it would be 28G.

 

[doc holiday13]

So quick question... back in the day, when people were starting their kids off with .410's... in terms of hunting... and before all the heavier than lead options... what game species did parents allow their kid to try to gun for?

Squirrels

 

[t_carlson]

So quick question... back in the day, when people were starting their kids off with .410's... in terms of hunting... and before all the heavier than lead options... what game species did parents allow their kid to try to gun for?

Rabbits and grouse, at least where I grew up. Grouse were shot on the ground.

.410's were given to kids because of the low recoil, not because of some ideal killing ability.

 

[WCB]

So quick question... back in the day, when people were starting their kids off with .410's... in terms of hunting... and before all the heavier than lead options... what game species did parents allow their kid to try to gun for?

I grew up shooting a .410 as my first shotgun...I killed rabbits, grouse, pheasants, and waterfowl with it. For reference I am 37. Not sure if that qualifies for back in the day...but I use that term fairly regularly now so probably does.

 

[TheGDog]

.410's were given to kids because of the low recoil, not because of some ideal killing ability.

Duh! Hence the question. To get a feel for what people report the .410 works decently for.

 

[Macintosh]

the price of tungsten makes it not viable for me for anything other than turkeys. Also I have never been able to get hard (steel or tungsten) shot to pattern open enough for close range like I find is normal on partridge. If youre talking about bird hunting I dont like the bad patterns and lost shot to fliers that comes from trying to stuff more lead shot into the same shell—which is normally what happens when people try to stretch the performance of a subgauge. So I stick to a 20 and a 12 for everything. If I need more than 7/8 or 1oz of shot I go to the 12 normally. And if I think I need more than 1 1/4oz I generally either am shooting a turkey or my 30-06…joking, but I just dont think really heavy for gauge payloads are actually helpful. If you reload and want a light-recoiling shell that patterns exceptionally well (which translates to killing reliably), try loading 3/4oz 20ga and 7/8 or 3/4oz 12 ga. Assuming you have a gun you like already, Id take that over a subgauge for anything other than the cool factor of having a subgauge in the first place.

 

[t_carlson]

Duh! Hence the question. To get a feel for what people report the .410 works decently for.

If you have to ask what a .410 "works decently for" you are not well-versed enough in guns and hunting to be responding with a "Duh!" to anyone's answer.

 

[TheGDog]

If you have to ask what a .410 "works decently for" you are not well-versed enough in guns and hunting to be responding with a "Duh!" to anyone's answer.

You really can't see how I'm answering "Duh!" to the comment of they were given to kids due to the low recoil? You don't have to have experience to understand that part of it, now do you!

That I was not fortunate enough to be able to participate in this sport as a kid because we weren't of sufficient means, is no reason for some.. ahem.. less-than-tolerant adult to get all "Holier than thou" on me either.

 

[Chuckybmd]

Grouse and snakes.

Same

 

[t_carlson]

You really can't see how I'm answering "Duh!" to the comment of they were given to kids due to the low recoil? You don't have to have experience to understand that part of it, now do you!

That I was not fortunate enough to be able to participate in this sport as a kid because we weren't of sufficient means, is no reason for some.. ahem.. less-than-tolerant adult to get all "Holier than thou" on me either.

You lost me with the victim card.

Use a .410 or don't. It does not affect me one bit.

 

[TheGDog]

You lost me with the victim card.

Use a .410 or don't. It does not affect me one bit.

Huh? Not gettin' what ya mean by "victim card", just calling you out on your BS of being all "holier than thou".

Because you're in essence putting yourself above others when you said, and I quote :

"If you have to ask what a .410 "works decently for" you are not well-versed enough in guns and hunting to be responding with a "Duh!" to anyone's answer."


Which is pure BS and a false-equivalency when you say that. Because all me saying that proves is that I'm not experienced with using a freakin' .410. Nothing else.

So... as part of my due-diligence, I legitimately had questions as to what it's limitations are. You know.. wanting to educate yourself, to insure you're being ethical with it's use should I find myself using one some day... or, should I have to watch over a younger hunter some day, and not trying to take game animals you shouldn't be trying to take with one.

Not a DAMN THING wrong with me asking that question.. conversely there's a DAMN LOT wrong with how you CHOSE to respond.

Your response alienates and creates division. Like ya took a page from the Left's playbook or something.