Golden Retriever Pointing

[CMP70306]

Good Morning Everyone,

So I just wrapped up my first season with my first bird dog, a just turned two year old Field Bred Golden named Cedar. We wrapped up the season with a preserve Chukar hunt after a season of chasing stocked pheasants on PA State Gamelands.

The one thing I did notice is that on the Chukars she will actually stop and point the bird, it’s typically only from a few feet away and when the bird moves she’s on it until it flies. I noticed she did it some during her training last summer but this was our first real preserve hunt and she did it on pretty much every bird. While pheasant hunting they were pretty much all runners so she just chased them and never did any pointing.

Since this is my first bird dog and nobody I know hunts with Goldens is that normal?



Here is her pointing the bird and then flushing it from the bush on command.

 

[Hoghead]

I think pointing is natural to dogs. I have hog dogs that point at stuff. Not pigs but things in the yard and sometimes squirrels.

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[Macintosh]

Pointing is just a vestigal pause before a pounce. It’s pretty normal for lots of flushing dogs, especially if they’ve had a little steadiness training—folks call this a “soft flush”. I have a good friend who has been a pro trainer for 30+ years who says in his experience maybe 1/4 to 1/2 of the flushing dogs he trains will sometimes flash-point when you start working on steadiness, and maybe 1 in 5 will point naturally. There are even dogs that are pretty steady. I had a lab years ago that would hold point on woodcock (which hold notoriously well) allowing you plenty of time to walk in and flush, while flushing birds that moved. It wasnt something trained, but was fun. Somewhere I have videos of him pointing and holding birds for pretty long periods of time. Eventually I trained him to flush on command, which was super cool. I even knew a guy with a rottweiler that would point pen-raised birds and hold them until you flushed.

With a lot of flushing dogs “sit” is a power command. That may not be a technical term, but its a foundational command that is often tought early and also used with some pressure in training (pressure in various forms). So lots of dogs when pressured will sit, even if thats not the command given. If you have worked on this but havent insisted on super tight manners (sitting straight vs just sitting) then some steadiness pressure may have them “pointing”, ie they are anticipating a pressured command on the flush and are freezing as a result. Spaniel folks consider this a flaw and will go out if their way to train it out of a dog or even not breed a dog that exhibits it. Pointing in labs always brings out an argument. If you like it, enjoy it, you can reinforce it with woah training if you want, the pointing lab folks have some decent resources out on this as well as balancing pointing with retrieving skills which are sometimes at odds. Or train it out, there are some good drills for encouraging a “hard flush” you can search for. Or just take it as it comes.

 

[CMP70306]

Pointing is just a vestigal pause before a pounce. It’s pretty normal for lots of flushing dogs, especially if they’ve had a little steadiness training—folks call this a “soft flush”. I have a good friend who has been a pro trainer for 30+ years who says in his experience maybe 1/4 to 1/2 of the flushing dogs he trains will sometimes flash-point when you start working on steadiness, and maybe 1 in 5 will point naturally. There are even dogs that are pretty steady. I had a lab years ago that would hold point on woodcock (which hold notoriously well) allowing you plenty of time to walk in and flush, while flushing birds that moved. It wasnt something trained, but was fun. Somewhere I have videos of him pointing and holding birds for pretty long periods of time. Eventually I trained him to flush on command, which was super cool. I even knew a guy with a rottweiler that would point pen-raised birds and hold them until you flushed.

With a lot of flushing dogs “sit” is a power command. That may not be a technical term, but its a foundational command that is often tought early and also used with some pressure in training (pressure in various forms). So lots of dogs when pressured will sit, even if thats not the command given. If you have worked on this but havent insisted on super tight manners (sitting straight vs just sitting) then some steadiness pressure may have them “pointing”, ie they are anticipating a pressured command on the flush and are freezing as a result. Spaniel folks consider this a flaw and will go out if their way to train it out of a dog or even not breed a dog that exhibits it. Pointing in labs always brings out an argument. If you like it, enjoy it, you can reinforce it with woah training if you want, the pointing lab folks have some decent resources out on this as well as balancing pointing with retrieving skills which are sometimes at odds. Or train it out, there are some good drills for encouraging a “hard flush” you can search for. Or just take it as it comes.

Thank you for the information, based on what I can tell it comes naturally to her as she started it on her very first bird introduction. At that point my only training had been obedience with no steadiness done to encourage her to actively chase chukars with the flight feathers pulled. And I will admit her pointing doesn’t seem to affect her retrieving and I’m pretty sure catching cripples is her favorite thing in the world.


Personally I like the pointing and will probably encourage it going forward as she will solely be a hunting dog. Our buddy that went with us doesn’t get around great and he had a blast hunting over her as she would wait for us to catch up before flushing.

 

[Bluefish]

Grew up with a friend who had a pointing golden. Would point any bird. Don’t think it’s common, but not unheard of for goldens.

 

[OneGunTex]

Everything @Macintosh said is spot on. I trained a Springer and work with some top notch spaniel trainers, and they say you can get any dog to point, even a hard flushing spaniel. Now, in the spaniels that is strongly discouraged. We work to get a hard flush.