4 fletch vs. 3 fletch

[ontarget7]

Well you got our interest ontarget7 how about letting us in on your possible discovery so those of us who enjoy trying different combinations can also test it out?

My biggest complaint with the larger vanes is I re Fletch way more than I like to when shooting groups. Nicking vanes and blowing holes through them etc. but seem to always go back to the 2" Blazers 3 Fletch 6* helical. My only thing I would like is less noise in flight and equal results long range.
This year I have settled in with the Hexx arrows again but upped my FOC a bit more to 20%. This has been a very forgiving bareshaft combo shooting a total of 200 grains up front. For me personally a forgiving bareshaft will equal excellent Broadheads down range.
I have been testing the Blazer X2 4 fletch with my 3 fletch and so far control is there even in slight windy conditions. About 8-10 mph winds tested so far and they are right in there with my 6* helical 3 fletch 2" Blazers.
They are definitely quieter in flight and hoping to keep the re fletching to a minimal with the lower profile.

Fixed blade and fieldpoints in 8 mph wind at 40 yards have been great so far.

If this holds great groups out to 100 yards I will probably switch to this combo


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[5MilesBack]

My biggest complaint with the larger vanes is I re Fletch way more than I like to when shooting groups. Nicking vanes and blowing holes through them etc.

I mostly used 2" QS's the past 10 years, but I never could understand how those arrows would get perfectly holed directly through a fletch and still be perfectly parallel and touching that arrow in the target with straight fletched QS's. Not even sure how that's possible, but it happened all the time. I don't see that at all with the lower profile Fusion Xii vanes, but it also used to happen with the lower profile 3" QS's too.

 

[mrgreen]

This year I have settled in with the Hexx arrows again but upped my FOC a bit more to 20%. This has been a very forgiving bareshaft combo shooting a total of 200 grains up front. For me personally a forgiving bareshaft will equal excellent Broadheads down range.
I have been testing the Blazer X2 4 fletch with my 3 fletch and so far control is there even in slight windy conditions.

If this holds great groups out to 100 yards I will probably switch to this combo

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I've also just switched to Hexx shafts, so I'm very interested in your results. What weight and draw-length are you shooting?

By the way, ontarget7 your PM box is full.

 

[justin davis]

I usually shoot a 4 fletch for smaller vanes. It allows me use a smaller vane but still achieve good results.

I have used the 4 AAE pro max vanes. They worked awesome in the wind and awesome accuracy, but they were very loud. I'm currently shootings Bohning x vane 2.25 in a 4 fletch. They are quiet and fly well. I have tested the blazer x 2 out before and liked them as well

 

[kicker338]

My biggest complaint with the larger vanes is I re Fletch way more than I like to when shooting groups. Nicking vanes and blowing holes through them etc. but seem to always go back to the 2" Blazers 3 Fletch 6* helical. My only thing I would like is less noise in flight and equal results long range.
This year I have settled in with the Hexx arrows again but upped my FOC a bit more to 20%. This has been a very forgiving bareshaft combo shooting a total of 200 grains up front. For me personally a forgiving bareshaft will equal excellent Broadheads down range.
I have been testing the Blazer X2 4 fletch with my 3 fletch and so far control is there even in slight windy conditions. About 8-10 mph winds tested so far and they are right in there with my 6* helical 3 fletch 2" Blazers.
They are definitely quieter in flight and hoping to keep the re fletching to a minimal with the lower profile.

Fixed blade and fieldpoints in 8 mph wind at 40 yards have been great so far.

If this holds great groups out to 100 yards I will probably switch to this combo


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Thanks for that info. I tried them last yr. 4 fletch sx2 they shot good out to 60yds. my personal limit with trick standerds. Lost my nerve to use them hunting but might go back and try them again.

 

[ontarget7]

Been working on settling my pin float down on the Reign 6. Think I got her dialed in now. Was in a rush today but after 20-60 for sight tape I dropped back to asses pin float at 80 yards. Only had time to squeeze in 3 arrows but the Blazer X2 4 fletch performed great. Even in a little bit of wind, they held nice in tight. I would say my sight tape is on the money.
Next will be the last test for the X2's with fixed blade broadheads long range.

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[L2theV2theD]

There are several factors to consider when talking about the flight of a body moving dynamically though air.

An arrow achives the majority of its stability in two major ways. The first is through forcing its center of pressure to be behind its center of gravity. The center of pressure on a body is the point where all of the aerodynamic pressure fields may be represented by a single force vector with no moment. This condition yields stable flight, meaning the arrow will not overturn during flight due to aerodynamic forces. In this regard, there is little gained using 4 vanes instead of three, since the center of pressure for either scenario will be adequately aft of the center of gravity to be stable.

The second is through gyroscopic spin. In this case, spin is induced by the offset of the vane relative to the axis of the shaft. This rotation aids in stability by conservation of angular momentum. In this regard, 4 vanes offer superior stability over three since the additional vane add an additional force to induce rotation faster.

Consider the major aerodynamic forces acting on such a body throughout the duration of the flight. Lift and Drag. To stay relevant to this discussion, consider lift only to be a function of velocity, angle of attack and surface area. And drag to be a function of velocity and surface area, and surface roughness. That is, as velocity, angle of attack, surface roughness, and surface area change, there is a corresponding change in lift and drag.

For an arrows flight, the lift (in the technical sense of the term) provided by a set of vanes is negligible since the angle of attack is 0* (that is the velocity vector is essentially congruent with the axial body vector). However, vanes are imperative to an arrows flight being dynamically stable. Vanes provide a small restoring lift force even at small angles of attack. This is important to overcome turning momentum. In this regard, 4 vanes offer superior stabilization by providing a larger total surface area.

Drag is a non-negligible force acting on the arrow and has to be accounted for. Drag increases with surface area, velocity and surface roughness. There are multiple types of drag, but here I will do some hand waving and throw them all in one bucket. If someone is interested in a more in depth explanation I can expand. With 4 vanes, you have a ~33% increase in surface area over 3 vanes. This will result in an increase in surface drag. There is also an increase in interference drag (drag cause by interference of the airflow over the body and vanes at the junction) with 4 vanes.

Someone touched on surface roughness above, I will just mention that it does affect drag. Sometimes it is even desirable to increase surface roughness or introduce something to obscure the airflow over the vane to reduce surface drag. This is called tripping the flow. It is however not of great value to this discussion considering the velocity at which the arrow is traveling.

With all of this and more in consideration, I shoot 3 vanes. 3 quality vanes (99% of the time) are more than adequate to stabilize the arrow and the ~25% reduction in drag gained by only having 3 vanes is of much more value than the small amount of stability gained by 4 vanes.

Just my $0.02
-Nathan

awesome description.

I have always wondered whether people account for the effects of the boundary layer on the fletching caused by the surface friction, and in turn “dirty air” it would provide for a percentage of the vane next to it as it was turning?
I get that 4 vanes =more surface area,
But surface area in clean air is not equal to surface area in dirty air when talking about aerodynamics, when having 4 vanes they are essentially closer together (90 degrees apart) than 3 vanes (120 degrees apart) which I would think would allow more room and time for the dirty boundary layer air to pass by making the surface area of a 3 vane potentially more effective

 

[Easternbowhunter]

Confusing post

 

[406unltd]

4 has handled every Broadhead I’ve shot better than three. Thats just the way it is for me and I’ve repeated those results many times.

 

[Coveyleader]

Back in the late 90's early 2000s I shot three feathers, but could never get my Snuffers to fly well with them. I started using four fletch problem solved.

Fast forward to the last 10 years, I now shoot the same setup with 4" duravanes and still prefer this method.

I don't shoot long range, 30 tops, but with big feathers on the back, it does stabilize quick, but drag is noticeable if you shoot longer ranges.

Biggest plus, it's like a softball going towards the side of an elk or deer. Never a doubt where I hit.

 

[Hoyt-4magic]

It’s a four fletch four me, they seem to fly so much better “extremely quite” and look sick. All of these comments on it’s cheaper, bru cmon what are you really saving couple cents per arrow LOL for me there performance has tightend my groups by an inch. Worth the extra two dollars for me. Plus fletching arrows is fun!!!

 

[Zac]

Probably posted this 20 times but I think it's the most comprehensive vane testing out there.

Vane Testing / What's the best vane for my arrow - John Stallone Days in The Wild

Finding the best vane for you arrow set up can be an absolute chore there are so many types and styles and things to consider and what it comes down to is fletching up 3 of all the types and styles you want to test and shoot them, shoot them inside, outside, in wind, your self , shoot them with...

johnstallone.me

 

[MattB]

Secondly, I don't think surface area has anything to do with it. Four vanes/feathers allows the arrow to spin faster, therefore you'll get a faster trajectory and flatter shooting.

Surface area along with the amount of helical has almost everything to do with it. One can't really make blanket comments about which configuration stabilizes faster because it is dependent on the vanes used and the amount of surface area they provide. Generally people get about the same or more surface area/drag with 4 smaller vanes than 3 larger. The primary benefits of that are better clearance and reduced wind drift.

An arrow spins due to drag, and an arrow that spins faster will do so due to more drag. That will actually cause it to slow more quickly over distance and the trajectory will be less flat.

 

[Zac]

Hopefully Bill can comment on this. He was saying on a podcast that a minimum of half inch tall vanes are needed to stabilize the first half inch of trajectory. Vanes less than half inch tall leave the arrow without any direction for the first half inch of flight. This is a very critical position for shooters using a blade or drop away.

 

[Clarktar]

Hopefully Bill can comment on this. He was saying on a podcast that a minimum of half inch tall vanes are needed to stabilize the first half inch of trajectory. Vanes less than half inch tall leave the arrow without any direction for the first half inch of flight. This is a very critical position for shooters using a blade or drop away.

I wonder if that is why the AAE max stealth vanes have a max of 1/2" tall profile before tapering.

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[Zac]

I wonder if that is why the AAE max stealth vanes have a max of 1/2" tall profile before tapering.

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I don't know if any companies have caught on to it. I think Bill is using some very advanced equipment. I tried to talk to Bohning about it and got a very general reply. Bill said it doesn't matter how many smaller vanes you are using, you aren't directly steering once the nock leaves the string unless you have something a half inch high.

 

[Sled]

I've been toying with the idea of going with 4 x2 blazers. Truthfully the 3 vane blazer has worked for me just fine but I'm bored and want to see if these x2's will stabilize and come in under the weight of my 3 blazers. Might get 1/4" more clearance too.

 

[5MilesBack]

Vanes less than half inch tall leave the arrow without any direction for the first half inch of flight. This is a very critical position for shooters using a blade or drop away.

Just more reason to have arrows and bow tuned for arrows to come out of the bow perfectly straight, then it really shouldn't matter whether it's the first 1/2 inch or the first 3" before the vanes control the flight. I will say that my arrows with both 2" QS's (tall profile) and 4-fletch Q2i Xii 2.1" vanes (lower profile) both impact very close to the same spots at 60 yards with fixed blade BH's even.

 

[Zac]

Just more reason to have arrows and bow tuned for arrows to come out of the bow perfectly straight, then it really shouldn't matter whether it's the first 1/2 inch or the first 3" before the vanes control the flight. I will say that my arrows with both 2" QS's (tall profile) and 4-fletch Q2i Xii 2.1" vanes (lower profile) both impact very close to the same spots at 60 yards with fixed blade BH's even.

Your missing the point. If you are shooting a surprise shot you are giving your brain control to move the pin back to the dot as the shaft is traveling down the rest. The last chance you have to move that shaft in the right direction is the exact moment the nock leaves the string. This is why a taller vane will be more forgiving coming off the bow. The only way it isn't is if you have a bow that is fired out of a Hooter Shooter. Since the bow hand is always moving the shaft is always planing in a certain direction. Taller fletchings are going to suck that point in to the line of sight quicker. Maybe half inch is not much at 20, yet if you quantify too 100 it is probably substantial. I do believe that longer lower profile vanes are more aerodynamically stable at distance.

 

[slamdmini]

im not good enough to notice a difference with field points, but with broadheads the 4 fletch works better. same goes for taller vanes