358 Winchester Rebore

[bmicek]

Is the 358 Winchester as versatile as it seems? I’ve been contemplating a lightweight rifle with 18” barrel chambered in 358 Win. Seeing that I can load 140gr to 225gr+ it seems very versatile. I just fear it is going to be very unpleasant to shoot in a 5-6lb rifle. It would be shot suppressed as well.

 

[Wapiti1]

Suppressed, it would be a pussycat. Not suppressed and it still wouldn't be punishing.

Yes, it is a very versatile cartridge, but you do need to keep it within 300-400 yards. Those 35 cal bullets are not very slick in the air.

I have made a few of those in a cartridge called the .358 Hoosier to meet the deer hunting regs in Indiana. It's a shortened .358 Win. Most load a 180gr bullet to 2500fps in that cartridge with a 20" barrel. You can get 2650-2700 in the Winchester case. The 180gr bullet seems to be the sweet spot for that case.

Jeremy

 

[Balderdash]

I currently have an early BLR in 358. I've had a few more that I sold or traded in periods of poor discretion. Won't ever say no to more 35's that catch my interest.

Even in the light, short BLR's, I think the recoil is quite mild. I have 2 - 35 Whelens, the aforementioned 358's, and a couple 35 rems. Not trying to start another protracted back and forth thread about what it takes to put game down, but IME, 35 caliber projectiles are fantastic in transferring energy to killing damage on game; one of those things that has to be experienced to be fully appreciated, but suffice to state that they hit with seemingly inordinate authority. More DRT and lethality on less than ideal hits than I've experienced with smaller calibers.

 

[CApighunter]

I think you’ll be fine as far as recoil. My 338-06 is 5 pounds naked and right at 6 scoped and loaded. It’s stiff but not unbearable. If you handload I’d probably go with a 338 fed but that’s just me.

 

[Shraggs]

Also have a 358 win in blr and a 350 rm in Ruger m77.

Recoil, in my now sold 7 mm in a heavier Ruger #1 vs my blr hot loaded, the 358 is significantly more pleasing to shoot. A slow roll vs a snappier pop.

You can do better than 400 yards if I may offer differing opinion. At least in a 20” barrel. My current load is a 220 grain hammer Hunter going 2550 FPS with a g1 BC if .403. In the mid bores those Bullets open lower than 1800 FPS but I’m not finished testing this. That’s a load to a quarter mile+. Won’t see much difference in a 18”.

Fackker noted in his research on terminal ballistics, my summary, given sufficient penetration and wound cavity tissue damage, the only way to increase killing effectiveness is to increase caliber, ie bore - all things being equal.

Unfortunately there isn’t a tmk, which I’m a huge fan of. But there are two very good Bullets beyond hornady factory load which is fine for deer/elk to say 250 yards. The 225 partions and the 200 or 220 hammer hunters - which don’t work like a Barnes tsx. I think the partions has an edge on tissue damage, down to 2200 FPS but hammers carry consistent good damage to 1800 FPS and therefore extend your range.

I’ve seen hundreds of deer killed with 35 rem and 32 win spl with old cup and core at reasonable ranges to have respect for mid bores vs many smaller calibers. To me these Bullets, although lethal, don’t compare to custom hand loading the two Bullets I prefer.

 

[Shraggs]

Oh, years ago I was lucky enough to spend some extended time on the phone with Patrick Smith after stumbling on his white papers on his rambling hunting/ caliber thoughts. 358 was his preference in a light weight bolt rig…

I like levers tho

 

[longbarrel]

I recommend the .338 Federal. So did Ken Waters.

 

[gbflyer]

Yes it is. Do it.

 

[ChrisAU]

I have a 16" 358 Win that started life as a Kimber Hunter in 243 Rem. Its right around 5.25 lbs scoped, slung, and mag loaded. It is not pleasant to shoot at the range, but its not too bad either. I plan on hunting whitetail does with it next week for a few days.

 

[bbell]

Also have a 358 win in blr and a 350 rm in Ruger m77.

Recoil, in my now sold 7 mm in a heavier Ruger #1 vs my blr hot loaded, the 358 is significantly more pleasing to shoot. A slow roll vs a snappier pop.

You can do better than 400 yards if I may offer differing opinion. At least in a 20” barrel. My current load is a 220 grain hammer Hunter going 2550 FPS with a g1 BC if .403. In the mid bores those Bullets open lower than 1800 FPS but I’m not finished testing this. That’s a load to a quarter mile+. Won’t see much difference in a 18”.

Fackker noted in his research on terminal ballistics, my summary, given sufficient penetration and wound cavity tissue damage, the only way to increase killing effectiveness is to increase caliber, ie bore - all things being equal.

Unfortunately there isn’t a tmk, which I’m a huge fan of. But there are two very good Bullets beyond hornady factory load which is fine for deer/elk to say 250 yards. The 225 partions and the 200 or 220 hammer hunters - which don’t work like a Barnes tsx. I think the partions has an edge on tissue damage, down to 2200 FPS but hammers carry consistent good damage to 1800 FPS and therefore extend your range.

I’ve seen hundreds of deer killed with 35 rem and 32 win spl with old cup and core at reasonable ranges to have respect for mid bores vs many smaller calibers. To me these Bullets, although lethal, don’t compare to custom hand loading the two Bullets I prefer.

I’d be curious about your low velocity testing. I have a 35 whelen and have been looking at which bullets extend the range a bit. It will be awhile before I am able to get to that project but have been looking online right now. Seems like either the hammer bullets or a partition can get to 400yds with 1800fps. Not much info on low velocity expansion though.

And for the OP my whelen was rebored from a 30/06. I enjoy it a lot and recoils seems same as when it was a 30/06. Another perk is you can shoot cast pistol bullets for very cheap. Another project to get to at some point.

 

[Shraggs]

I feel the partion is such a great wounding Bullet. Maybe not the best for long range but a great choice for a mid bore. I started my load with those and at similar speeds it was going be 1800 around 380 yds. For me as an elk gun I feel better with more Bullet expansion like 2200 and 2000 minimum for the partions. Falls far short of my goals. Now the partions is short so it’s possible to load it much faster due to capacity and oal limit of my magazine in a blr.

The hammer in 220 is so long that I had to cut powder and was still very very compressed. But at those speeds it’s wounding is not comprised at 1800 FPS. Also if you’re in a bolt gun more than likely you have room to seat them out further plus the extra case capacity. I would think for a whelan 2750 would be easy, using Tac. I know in my 350 rm I stopped my ladder test with partions at 57 grains and I was 2770. With room to spare.

In talking extensively with Steve at hammer Bullets, he has tested all of his products for proper opening of petals and separation to 1800 FPS. According to him, the softer nature if his copper should yield a lower opening or threshold in speed the bigger in caliber you go. So I have tested at 1800, but ran out of time and weather to do so at 1700, and 1600 per his recommendation and not assume they still be fully lethal. To be clear he stands behind 1800 FPS.

This spring I’m going to use the 200 GR hammers just so I’m not so darn compressed, then move forward with the what if. That’s in the blr.

In the whelan or 350 partions near 2850 puts 2000 at 400, 1800 around 500. If similar speeds with the hammers you can see how far it extends