.308 or 6.5 creedmoor

[77TMK]

how come?

From Bryan Litz of Applied Ballistics:
"This page often highlights exceptionally good long-range bullets. It's equally important to call attention to bullets that are to be avoided. Case in point, the 6.5mm 147 gr ELDM.

We've tested this bullet many times with Doppler radar, from many different rifles, different twists, etc., and it always has excessively high BC variation and shows signs of high limit cycle yaw beginning at supersonic which grows worse at transonic. As a rule of thumb, you don't want to see a BC SD over 1% for long-range bullets, and this bullet almost always tests over 2x that limit.

It's a tempting option on paper, but you'll have more success at long range with other options in 6.5mm.

This is not to bad mouth a specific manufacturer. If you like Hornady products, the 140 ELDM is a far better option in terms of BC consistency."


Also the 147 ELD-M often grenades in-flight from a jacket failure.

 

[bojangles808]

6.5cm easily. less recoil, better ballistics. modern chambering.

 

[Marble]

Why?

Don't know what his reasoning is. But mine was so I could have more velocity with the same bullet. About 250 fps on average between the two. I have always thought the 6.5 CM was a great round, but always wanted a little more velocity. That's why I choose the PRC.

 

[bergie]

View attachment 814069
From Bryan Litz of Applied Ballistics:
"This page often highlights exceptionally good long-range bullets. It's equally important to call attention to bullets that are to be avoided. Case in point, the 6.5mm 147 gr ELDM.

We've tested this bullet many times with Doppler radar, from many different rifles, different twists, etc., and it always has excessively high BC variation and shows signs of high limit cycle yaw beginning at supersonic which grows worse at transonic. As a rule of thumb, you don't want to see a BC SD over 1% for long-range bullets, and this bullet almost always tests over 2x that limit.

It's a tempting option on paper, but you'll have more success at long range with other options in 6.5mm.

This is not to bad mouth a specific manufacturer. If you like Hornady products, the 140 ELDM is a far better option in terms of BC consistency."


Also the 147 ELD-M often grenades in-flight from a jacket failure.

Interesting, I have had good success with the 147 but with extremely limited experience out of my 6.5 PRC. Maybe I will have to go with the 143 ELDx

 

[Matt5266]

Another vote for 6.5 creed. Nothing wrong with a .308 at all. 6.5 has great ballistics and is a joy to shoot.

By the way I have shot both 308 and 6.5 in a tikka superlite. There is a noticeable difference in recoil. I have many big bore rifles so it doesnt bother me but the 6.5 is way more pleasant for longer range sessions and also if you want any chance at spotting your shots.

 

[77TMK]

Interesting, I have had good success with the 147 but with extremely limited experience out of my 6.5 PRC. Maybe I will have to go with the 143 ELDx

143 ELD-X is an awesome bullet. 140 ELD-M seems marginally better on game at a little lower velocity with the thinner jacket. Granted my rifle shoots the 140 ELD-M a hair better too, but the inverse seems to be the norm.

 

[Matt5266]

Interesting, I have had good success with the 147 but with extremely limited experience out of my 6.5 PRC. Maybe I will have to go with the 143 ELDx

143 eldx has been the bullet of choice for me. 3 large mule deer and 2 antelope. Put them all down quick.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

View attachment 814069
From Bryan Litz of Applied Ballistics:
"This page often highlights exceptionally good long-range bullets. It's equally important to call attention to bullets that are to be avoided. Case in point, the 6.5mm 147 gr ELDM.

We've tested this bullet many times with Doppler radar, from many different rifles, different twists, etc., and it always has excessively high BC variation and shows signs of high limit cycle yaw beginning at supersonic which grows worse at transonic. As a rule of thumb, you don't want to see a BC SD over 1% for long-range bullets, and this bullet almost always tests over 2x that limit.

It's a tempting option on paper, but you'll have more success at long range with other options in 6.5mm.

This is not to bad mouth a specific manufacturer. If you like Hornady products, the 140 ELDM is a far better option in terms of BC consistency."


Also the 147 ELD-M often grenades in-flight from a jacket failure.

Lol - all I shoot out of my 6.5 PRC is 147gr eldms. Have never had a jacket failure or grenade. GTFO of here

 

[Hunter in Dixie]

I couldn't decide between the two so I made the obvious choice, one of each.

I use the CM in sheep country where longer ranges and fewer bears are the norm. The .308 is my deer rifle where shorter shots and more bears are the norm.

I like the 143gr ELD-X in the 6.5 and 168gr TTSK in the .308. Both high BC, accurate bullets that seem to kill stuff very well.

I went with both also in Christensen Arms even used the Exact same gr. bullets. Sold the 6.5CM, kept the .308. The range between the guns were almost identical, but the “Knock down” power was not the same. I know this may make people that love the Creedmoor upset, but every single deer shot with it, would run away, 90% would die but still run. With the .308 only one left the food plot.

 

[77TMK]

Lol - all I shoot out of my 6.5 PRC is 147gr eldms. Have never had a jacket failure or grenade. GTFO of here

I've never needed a seatbelt to save my life so obviously wearing one is a waste of time.

 

[Abirkle]

I know this has probably been beat to death but I wanna be convinced which way to go. I live in Colorado so the 6.5 creedmoor can’t be used on elk. I already have a 300 wsm for elk and a 7mm rem mag but my 7 mag isn’t very accurate. What I want for this rifle is accuracy and the ability to be used for mule deer and pronghorn and be a rifle my girlfriend can shoot. Not sure if she’d ever want to shoot an elk but if she did that’s why I’m considering the .308 over the 6.5 creedmoor. The rifle I’m gonna get is the tikka t3x superlite. My question is are there really that much benefit of going with the 6.5 creedmoor over the .308? The only think I see the advantage being is that it shoots flatter further but at that point we are getting into non hunting ranges

6.5 creed for sure!

 

[prm]

I have both. Hard to really pick one. If shooting very long ranges I’d lean 6.5. If hunting inside 500ish, give or take, either works well. 140 eldm at ~2700 and 155 Scenar at ~2900. (Yes, the 6.5 has a shorter barrel than the 308).

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Don't know what his reasoning is. But mine was so I could have more velocity with the same bullet. About 250 fps on average between the two. I have always thought the 6.5 CM was a great round, but always wanted a little more velocity. That's why I choose the PRC.

My 20" 6.5 CM shoots the 147 ELDM at 2605 MV.

My father in laws 20" 6.5 PRC shoots the 147 ELDM at 2790 MV.

At mid DA, using 1,800 FPS impact velocity, his 6.5 PRC is a 950 yard gun at roughly 6.8 MIL Up and a 1.2 MIL full value 10 MPH wind.

At mid DA, using 1,800 FPS impact velocity, my 6.5 CM is an 850 yard gun at 6.7 MIL Up and 1.2 MIL full value 10 MPH wind.

My questions would be... How often are you killing big game past 850 yards? And. Is 40ish% increase in recoil between the two guns in an 8 lb hunting rifle worth it?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Interesting, I have had good success with the 147 but with extremely limited experience out of my 6.5 PRC. Maybe I will have to go with the 143 ELDx

I personally prefer the 143 ELDX over any of the 6.5 ELDMs. I also prefer the 129 SST over any of the ELDMs but that's because I "know" how that bullet behaves and where to place, having shot it and killed hundreds of big game animals with it since 2014 now.

 

[Marble]

My 20" 6.5 CM shoots the 147 ELDM at 2605 MV.

My father in laws 20" 6.5 PRC shoots the 147 ELDM at 2790 MV.

At mid DA, using 1,800 FPS impact velocity, his 6.5 PRC is a 950 yard gun at roughly 6.8 MIL Up and a 1.2 MIL full value 10 MPH wind.

At mid DA, using 1,800 FPS impact velocity, my 6.5 CM is an 850 yard gun at 6.7 MIL Up and 1.2 MIL full value 10 MPH wind.

My questions would be... How often are you killing big game past 850 yards? And. Is 40ish% increase in recoil between the two guns in an 8 lb hunting rifle worth it?

It's interesting how much velocity is left on the table with the shorter barrels. Not trying to give you a hard time about having a short barrel. There are some awesome things about having a shorter barrel. I think it is interesting to see real numbers of how barrel length changes effect velocity. Factory loads from Hornaday come out of a 24" barrel @2920. That was with a magnetospeed.

To answer your question directly, I don't shoot at animals that far away. I get your question about the recoil difference too, but it isn't enough to make my wife think twice about it. She's 5'4" 135 lbs.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I personally prefer the 143 ELDX over any of the 6.5 ELDMs. I also prefer the 129 SST over any of the ELDMs but that's because I "know" how that bullet behaves and where to place, having shot it and killed hundreds of big game animals with it since 2014 now.

I am sure you have killed “hundreds” of big game animals in the last 10 yrs…LMAO

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

It's interesting how much velocity is left on the table with the shorter barrels. Not trying to give you a hard time about having a short barrel. There are some awesome things about having a shorter barrel. I think it is interesting to see real numbers of how barrel length changes effect velocity. Factory loads from Hornaday come out of a 24" barrel @2920. That was with a magnetospeed.

To answer your question directly, I don't shoot at animals that far away. I get your question about the recoil difference too, but it isn't enough to make my wife think twice about it. She's 5'4" 135 lbs.

I've seen multiple 80-100 FPS discrepancies in a single box with factory Hornady 147 6.5 PRC. Was 2920 the average MV or the hot rounds?

Ignoring the advantages of recoil reduction and using the "my wife shoots it fine" argument is weird. My wife also shoots a 6.5 PRC "without thinking twice". She shoots her .243 better, and my .223's even better than that. She's switching to a 22 Creedmoor for next season for a reason.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

My daughter started with a RA in .308 shooting 165 and 168 factory ammo. With 22" barrel, Boyd's laminate, and SWFA, the rifle was around 10 pounds. The recoil was too much for her (17 years old, around 155 pounds, weightlifter on scholarship). She is a very solid young lady, and she did not enjoy shooting the gun.

On the other hand she loves her Tikka T3 in 7-08, shooting my warm 162 gr ELDX handloads, albeit suppressed. She would never go back to a .308, there's just no reason at this point.

The 6.5CM recoils even less, has ubiquitous ammo, and has been proven to be a killer of big game animals ad nauseum. I'd go with the 6.5CM or a 7-08 and never look back.

 

[HuntHarder]

I think we are heading down another recoil vs. performance debate....
FWIW, Using Hornady's supplied #'s, the creedmoor is more of a 750 yard gun with the 147's and that is using a 24" tube. Their #'s not mine (2695 fps). Using their same #'s, Looks like the PRC gets you another 100-150 yards but with 30-40% more recoil. Maybe save you 1/2 moa of wind drift @750.

OP- Of the 2 you are comparing, I would go with the Creedmoor. Higher BC bullets with better velocity and still plenty of "wallop"

 

[ddd-shooter]

I know this has probably been beat to death but I wanna be convinced which way to go. I live in Colorado so the 6.5 creedmoor can’t be used on elk. I already have a 300 wsm for elk and a 7mm rem mag but my 7 mag isn’t very accurate. What I want for this rifle is accuracy and the ability to be used for mule deer and pronghorn and be a rifle my girlfriend can shoot. Not sure if she’d ever want to shoot an elk but if she did that’s why I’m considering the .308 over the 6.5 creedmoor. The rifle I’m gonna get is the tikka t3x superlite. My question is are there really that much benefit of going with the 6.5 creedmoor over the .308? The only think I see the advantage being is that it shoots flatter further but at that point we are getting into non hunting ranges

I don’t want to be that guy, but if you’re selecting for your girlfriend, go with the 7mm-.08 as the other option against the 6.5.

Better comparison and I’d buy either for my wife tomorrow and never look back.
Heck I might just add a. 7-.08 to the stable just for me.