.30-30 vs AR-10 vs 12gauge for grizzly bear defense

[Luke S]

With 3 people your chance of bluffing a bear off are pretty good. Couple things to think about.

First a broken ankle is probably more likely than a bear attack. Along with that you need to move efficiently to kill game. I'm a fan of trekking poles for both reasons. If I don't expect to use my rifle momentarily it's in a Kifaru Gun Bearer. Bear spray or handgun is ready for quick deployment. Consider that. It might be a Glock and bear spray is enough with the other guys carrying rifles. That would be my approach. You are more helpful as another set of eyes to avoid problems then slinging lead.

If you really need a long gun it's what you shoot best under pressure. I don't like the AR10 idea because of the weight and bulk. I have similar feelings about most AR15s but they are more manageable. A 30-30 is pretty handy to carry. We've shot grizzly with a 308 and 6.5 Grendal but with modern ammo (ELDM). Not sure how well 30-30 cup and core ammo compares. Grizzlies are not typically as big as you think but they move fast. I'd prioritize hits over a huge bullet.

 

[VernAK]

I've been in close proximity to several grizzlies over the years and have taken a few but only two were at close range. The most recent was a large boar that I knew was traveling toward me in thick, low bush. When he broke out of the bushes I shot him in the chest with 12ga Brenneke Slugs. The slug penetrated through the lung, liver area and severed his spine far enough back to paralyze his back legs. He dropped at 13 paces. I often have heard grizzlies can run 30 MPH. I've chased some down the road and consider 30 MPH as a stretch but not by much. 30MPH is 44 ft/second so 13 paces doesn't allow much time.

All of my hunting guns must fit me like a fine upland shotgun, or I modify them until they do fit me. ARs do not fit much of anyone. I've watched numerous police programs where SWAT is entering a building with guns up and ready. the butt plate of the ARs is always half above the shoulder of the cop.

IMO, the old Foster Slug is not the better choice and buckshot is even worse unless the bear is very close to the muzzle. I have a friend that shot 150 bears from a heli. His choice was 12ga Brenneke for one shot kills. The bears were chered for local villagers and they complained about meat loss from Brenneke Slugs. He then switched to Foster Slugs ad had to shoot each bear multiple times, but they could "eat right up to the hole".

 

[Q_Sertorius]

ARs do not fit much of anyone. I've watched numerous police programs where SWAT is entering a building with guns up and ready. the butt plate of the ARs is always half above the shoulder of the cop.

Have you ever used an AR?

 

[ThorM465]

All of my hunting guns must fit me like a fine upland shotgun, or I modify them until they do fit me. ARs do not fit much of anyone. I've watched numerous police programs where SWAT is entering a building with guns up and ready. the butt plate of the ARs is always half above the shoulder of the cop.

This is fundamentally wrong. The M4/AR15 fits me like a third arm that I was born with, due to my experience with it. I don't expect this to be true for everyone, but it is an excellent ergonomically designed platform.

If you're holding the rifle/shotgun correctly, the butt stock should be protruding above your shoulder. The butt stock should be "high in the pocket of the shoulder." There's a pocket of your shoulder that the bottom of the butt stock should fit nicely in. This is especially important if you want to be accurate while moving and shooting.

 

[VernAK]

Have you ever used an AR?

In my military days I carried an M16 and I have owned an AR. Not my preference for a bear gun.

 

[StupidLightweight]

Of your options, I'd go with:
1. .30-30 due to carry comfort, speed of use, and centerfire rifle ballistics. Use whatever ammo its zeroed for.
2. 12 gauge due to weight and pointability. I'd stagger slugs and buckshot.
3. AR-10 is my last choice due to extreme weight and bulk (unless it's a Ruger SFAR or POF Rogue built on an AR-15-sized frame). Use whatever .308 ammo it's zeroed for.

All of this is a moot point, because you likely won't have to shoot a bear. Truthfully, I'd carry a 9mm pistol or .357 Mag. revolver on my belt and enjoy the hunt without carrying a third long gun in the group when I'm not even hunting. it's so nice not to hunt without a rifle on your shoulder or in-hand.

As others have said, if I were planning to go toe-to-claw with a grizzly, a lightweight AR-15 with the right bullet (77-grain TMK or 55-grain Barnes TSX) is not a bad option. They're reliable, ergonomic, and work better for hunting deer and coyotes as well as protection from two-legged predators than the three options you listed. If you don't yet own one, rectify that soon.

 

[TaperPin]

I tend to chuckle when seeing a shotgun with slug barrel in Wyoming - assume the guy is from back east. Us old guys also enjoy making fun of tacticool AR carrying hunters. Carry what you want, any firearm is probably all that’s needed. Guys love to fantasize about fighting a bear to the death and how the perfect rifle is the only thing that could save them, but most bears folks bump into run off at the sound. For 100 years before any of us were born, the rifles carried in the Rocky Mountain states were fairly modest in power, yet even with many more bears western settlers weren’t all wiped out with bear maulings.

There is a big difference between a rifle carried in case a bear or cat is bumped into and a dedicated bear rifle. If you’re the game warden tasked with finishing off wounded or problem bears, or are sitting in your chicken coupe waiting a grizzly to return to kill birds, then sure go all out. I’d bet lunch more grizzlies have been killed by game wardens with the 30-06 than all the others combined. It’s been the staple of game wardens and community security guards in high bear areas for a long time. I have a 30-06 and 220 gr corlocts because it reminds me of a government guy in an Alaskan village that used one to take out a 10’ polar bear that was breaking into houses. In AK the 375 H&H has a big following and one fish and wildlife guy I met used a 416 Remington when following up problem bears.

I guess slugs are ok if you trust your shotgun, but they aren’t much different from muzzleloader numbers. Shotguns are cheap, easy to maintain and easy to teach people how to use so it’s no wonder so many are used with seasonal workers in AK, but many are far from firearms enthusiasts.

 

[Steve300xcw]

ARs do not fit much of anyone.

You're goona offend some folks with that opinion

I like them for the tool that they are. However. I can get a normal hunting rifle/shotgun into action quite a bit faster, than an AR or bolt gun with a similar pistol gripped stock

 

[AKBorn]

16” ar15 in 222/5.56. You can put lots of rounds on target quickly. That would be my first choice. It will kill a bear just fine at 50 yards, especially if you put 5-10 shots into it.

In defensive situation, it’s all about putting the maximum number of shots on target as quickly as possible. It’s hard to beat an AR15 in that regards.

Just my opinion, but I think if they put 5 to 10 shots into a griz at 50 yards, the warden isn't going to be buying the self defense angle.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Likely any GWOT vet would disagree with the statement that AR’s don’t fit anyone haha most of the best warriors I’ve served with or encountered would say AR’s are probably one of the easiest platforms to handle/shoot. Out of the choice of the 3 you gave, I would go AR, shotgun, lever gun, I have an SFAR in .308 and it’s a dream to handle.

 

[ThorM465]

Just my opinion, but I think if they put 5 to 10 shots into a griz at 50 yards, the warden isn't going to be buying the self defense angle.

Let's hope the GW is better at math than this.

An athletic military aged male can cover 40 yards in under 5 seconds. If that male becomes hostile, pulls a knife, and moves towards me, I'm well within my rights to use lethal force to defend myself and others at 50 yards away. A grizzly is much faster. If a territorial boar or defensive sow moves in my direction aggressively, I'm unloading my magazine regardless of distance.

 

[Steve300xcw]

Let us know how that works for you

 

[AKBorn]

Let's hope the GW is better at math than this.

An athletic military aged male can cover 40 yards in under 5 seconds. If that male becomes hostile, pulls a knife, and moves towards me, I'm well within my rights to use lethal force to defend myself and others at 50 yards away. A grizzly is much faster. If a territorial boar or defensive sow moves in my direction aggressively, I'm unloading my magazine regardless of distance.

While I agree with your take on a human pulling a knife and advancing, I couldn't envision myself shooting an advancing griz at 50 yards. I have had several closer than that over the years, and luckily never had to fire a shot. Granted I don't think any were flat out charging, but a couple were doing what might be considered a bluff charge. I had decided upon 25 yards as my line to cross, and thankfully never had to pull the trigger. I practiced a lot imagining the charge scenario, used to get some strange looks at the rifle range. My experience is very limited compared to some of the gents on here.