.30-30 vs AR-10 vs 12gauge for grizzly bear defense

[HunterGatherer]

As a generality, the only ones I ever have any concern about are really young ones - the ones not old enough to win a territory, that get pushed out, but don't have enough sense yet to leave humans alone. It seems a lot of the ones that get killed by authorities down here after some sort of pet or human incident were really young like that. The older ones are better hunters and aren't tempted, have their own territories, have had bad encounters with humans, etc.

I think you’re talking about lions … I had one hunt me while calling elk and had to shoot it with my bow. Had another one kill a fawn on the trail 80yds in front of me. They’re the ones that are more likely to hunt you than a bear IME…but it’s a much cleaner death than getting eaten by a bear. Or at least that’s what I tell myself

 

[RockAndSage]

I think you’re talking about lions … I had one hunt me while calling elk and had to shoot it with my bow. Had another one kill a fawn on the trail 80yds in front of me. They’re the ones that are more likely to hunt you than a bear IME…but it’s a much cleaner death than getting eaten by a bear. Or at least that’s what I tell myself

Lol, yes, exactly what I was talking about. Glad you caught that.

 

[ThorM465]

Statistics say that bear spray is more effective than a gun at stopping a bear. I was wondering if there was anyone that has had first hand experience with either…

That's because by user reporting metrics the spray has a 100% effective rate. You know why that is don't you?...

You can't leave a bad review if you're being digested by a grizzly.

 

[M1SF1T]

2 years ago, a couple and their dog were killed by a brown bear in a remote area of Banff National Park. 2 empty cans of bear spray were retrieved from the scene.

 

[HunterGatherer]

I’m sure there have been a few scenes where there were empty shell casings and dead people too. Most bear attacks happen when the bear is surprised, in which case you probably get surprised too. I’ve surprised bears at very close range ( other side of the bush) and have been lucky that they just flighted instead of fighted , because if they had chosen to fight I would have had no chance to spray or pray

 

[mtnbound]

I’m going mule deer hunting in November with brother and friend in grizzly county in Montana. I only have a whitetail tag for a different unit so I’ll be pulling security detail for Mule deer hunting. I have a 30-30 lever action. Ar-10, and a 12 gauge pump. Which of these do you think would be the best for grizzly defense. (We’ll also be carrying bear spray as a first line of defense). And what kind of ammo. Thanks.

Whichever one you can accurately shoot in a close-range, rapid-fire mag dump situation. For ammo in the AR10 I have had good luck with 178gr Hornady ELDX and 165gr Federal Fusion. For 30-30, not sure, but probably the Federal Fusion 150gr. For the 12-gauge, probably Federal's Freight Train copper slug or similar.

 

[MuleyFever]

That's because by user reporting metrics the spray has a 100% effective rate. You know why that is don't you?...

You can't leave a bad review if you're being digested by a grizzly.

Wouldn't the same theory apply to handguns?

2 years ago, a couple and their dog were killed by a brown bear in a remote area of Banff National Park. 2 empty cans of bear spray were retrieved from the scene.

You don't think fired rounds or unfired handguns have been found alongside dead bodies?

In the moment the situation will dictate the best defense and no matter your planning you just may not get it right.

 

[AKAV8R]

What ammo in the AR 5.55?

Various issued duty over 30 yrs; 62-77 gr, bonded, interloc, partition, copper mono, etc.

What ammo in the AR 5.55?

 

[AKAV8R]

As a generality, the only ones I ever have any concern about are really young ones - the ones not old enough to win a territory, that get pushed out, but don't have enough sense yet to leave humans alone. It seems a lot of the ones that get killed by authorities down here after some sort of pet or human incident were really young like that. The older ones are better hunters and aren't tempted, have their own territories, have had bad encounters with humans, etc.

We kill a lot of juvenile bears. Plenty of old sows and boars mixed in. It seems random to me. I watched a huge boar swim across the river and visit our village last fall. Attempted to haze him, no affect. Old guy shot him off the back porch a few nights later. Bear looked pretty rough. About 9 footer, broken worn down teeth, etc. River was choked with salmon…

 

[BLJ]

Various issued duty over 30 yrs; 62-77 gr, bonded, interloc, partition, copper mono, etc.

Any use of the Gold Dots? Specifically the 75’s? Thanks.

 

[RockAndSage]

We kill a lot of juvenile bears. Plenty of old sows and boars mixed in. It seems random to me. I watched a huge boar swim across the river and visit our village last fall. Attempted to haze him, no affect. Old guy shot him off the back porch a few nights later. Bear looked pretty rough. About 9 footer, broken worn down teeth, etc. River was choked with salmon…

That's pretty interesting. I was actually responding about cougars, but didn't make that clear. On bears, especially grizzly, that's good to know it's pretty random across the board.

 

[M1SF1T]

Wouldn't the same theory apply to handguns?


You don't think fired rounds or unfired handguns have been found alongside dead bodies?

In the moment the situation will dictate the best defense and no matter your planning you just may not get it right.

You're welcome to your cans of bear spray in bear country, but I know what I'll carry. I'll take what has better odds of stopping a determined bear.

 

[ElDudarino]

I was a police sniper for 10 years and shot the barrel out of a .308 AR as well as 2 bolt .308 bolt guns. I did tons of testing shooting them through just about any barrier you can think of (glass, metal, wood) including gel testing. During that time, I also used the duty round as my primary hunting round and killed a good number of deer and elk.

I have used a 5.56 AR on a human in a rapid, close quarters situation with the immediate intended result.

I also grew up with beagles and a 20ga chasing rabbits.

I say all that to say, a 12ga with slugs is unquestionably my choice for a close up encounter (defense) with a bear (provided it isn’t some 28” duck gun or something).

The entirety of shotgun design is evolved for quick shots on moving targets. And I have way more faith in 400+ grains (1oz) of hard cast lead in penetrating consistently.

Lastly, outside of approaching kill sites, I wouldn’t worry about it enough to lug a long gun around for just that purpose.


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[fatlander]

There’s plenty of guys that have spent more time than me in grizzly country, but I’ve spent a fair amount of time bow hunting in it. I’d bring whatever is easiest to carry. After 3 or 4 days of not having an issue with a bear, you’ll be cursing whatever is in your hand catching on brush in the mountains.


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