280 ackley vs 6.8 western

[z987k]

Edit: I wouldn't worry too much about the 6.8 western disappearing. Browning/winchester will always support it, and recently ADG started producing brass for it.

Like they do for the 7WSM and all of the WSSMs?

 

[WKR]

Like they do for the 7WSM and all of the WSSMs?

Wssm is all but gone but they never really took off so thats a pour example. 270 wsm ammo can be found pretty easy.

 

[MuleyFever]

Doesn’t matter. Nothing you ever shoot will know the difference.


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This is always the answer.

 

[Ringbill27]

Those are both cartridges I’m interested in. Which I’d go with would be dependent on the what bolt face the donor tikka I find has.

 

[#publiclands]

Those of you who have both calibers, have you shot similar weight bullets on both to them. Some of the comments seem to indicate that the 280 ai is better suited for the 160s and after that is starts to lose a lot of velocity and energy with anything bigger. I am curious how this compares to the 6.8? Appears that that 6.8 will shoot the 160 plus very well and will have a 3-400 increase on velocity over the 280.
That being said is the 6.8 is a way better option for the heavy bullets?
Those of you that have compared them what did you notice? Thanks

 

[z987k]

Those of you who have both calibers, have you shot similar weight bullets on both to them. Some of the comments seem to indicate that the 280 ai is better suited for the 160s and after that is starts to lose a lot of velocity and energy with anything bigger. I am curious how this compares to the 6.8? Appears that that 6.8 will shoot the 160 plus very well and will have a 3-400 increase on velocity over the 280.
That being said is the 6.8 is a way better option for the heavy bullets?
Those of you that have compared them what did you notice? Thanks

It depends if you're hand loading and action size. The bigger bullets start eating into each's case capacity. The 280ai is already on a long action but a 6.8w on a long or medium with bullets loaded past saami lengths can pick most of the speed back up to a point.
It's the strength of all the short action magnums.

 

[Liv2HntBigBullz]

Hands down 280AI.

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[TaperPin]

You fellas just about talked your way into a 6.8-280ai - just a little more than a “6.8 O’Connor Ram Blaster”

 

[#publiclands]

No one has any comparisons to share? Can be hand loaded, factory, what ever .. just to get an idea of real world ballistics to effectively compare the two calibers.

Thanks for everyone’s information and suggestions! Much appreciated!

 

[Vern400]

I like being able to form brass from something dirt common like 270 or 30-06. And no, I don't want to do that unless forced to.

I love a 270, but I would probably rather build on a 7mm barrel because the boolit selection is staggering.

From the performance side I'd go with the rifle I liked most or build one. It ain't all about the gun.
It needs to fit you like a glove. Gunny Hathcock used a 7.62, which on this site is a musket with a bad action and a bad trigger.

I know that's probably a bad analogy, but you're not going to go wrong either way. Most people won't shoot out a barrel. But if you're one rifle man, the 280 gives you halfway decent barrel accuracy life.

I admit I'm kind of non-typical.

 

[z987k]

No one has any comparisons to share? Can be hand loaded, factory, what ever .. just to get an idea of real world ballistics to effectively compare the two calibers.

Thanks for everyone’s information and suggestions! Much appreciated!

Neither you nor anything you shoot will actually be able to tell the difference. The 6.8W with appropriate bullets is going to have slightly more distance to the minimum velocity for that bullet and slightly less wind drift and slightly more recoil. But it's so little difference it doesn't matter.
Do you like short action magnums? Do you like 4 vs 3 rounds in magazine?

For data - I put the 165 ablr(6.8) vs the 168 ablr(7mm) at top book velocities and you're looking at 0.1 inch more drop from the 280ai at 500 yards. 0.1 inches more wind drift in a 10mph crosswind at 500. Both hit 2000fps at about 675yards. About 8% less recoil energy with the 280ai. Honestly that's the only metric that sets them apart from each other by anything notable. Oh there's also the .007 inch larger entry hole the 280 will make and the wound channel will be just as immeasurable.

 

[#publiclands]

Neither you nor anything you shoot will actually be able to tell the difference. The 6.8W with appropriate bullets is going to have slightly more distance to the minimum velocity for that bullet and slightly less wind drift and slightly more recoil. But it's so little difference it doesn't matter.
Do you like short action magnums? Do you like 4 vs 3 rounds in magazine?

For data - I put the 165 ablr(6.8) vs the 168 ablr(7mm) at top book velocities and you're looking at 0.1 inch more drop from the 280ai at 500 yards. 0.1 inches more wind drift in a 10mph crosswind at 500. Both hit 2000fps at about 675yards. About 8% less recoil energy with the 280ai. Honestly that's the only metric that sets them apart from each other by anything notable. Oh there's also the .007 inch larger entry hole the 280 will make and the wound channel will be just as immeasurable.

Exactly the information that I was looking for. Out past 500 is a distance that I don’t see myself shooting in any hunting scenarios often so to me they are the same.
I’ve never owned a short action magnum so I guess that’s a though question for me to answer other than it would be cool to try but it has never really been a want but I do like standard short actions for their short throw and maneuverability and weight savings but I’ve hunted plenty with an 06 and never really noticed the difference.
3 vs 4 in the magazine doesn't really matter to me in a hunting rig.
Lees recoil of the 280 sounds more appealing as I wouldn’t hunt with the brake. The larger wound channel sounds like a plus as well.
Maintaining 2000 fps at 675 is plenty good for any hunting rifle. Assuming that the 280 ai starts to see a significant drop in velocity and has quite a bit more bullet drop past 675 as compared to the 6.8. So the 6.8 would shine at distances of 675 plus.
One of the reasons that I was leaning towards a 280 ai was I wanted to build a 6.5-06 but didn’t want the hassle of fire forming so the 280 ai quickly became a strong substitute

 

[wyosam]

Exactly the information that I was looking for. Out past 500 is a distance that I don’t see myself shooting in any hunting scenarios often so to me they are the same.
I’ve never owned a short action magnum so I guess that’s a though question for me to answer other than it would be cool to try but it has never really been a want but I do like standard short actions for their short throw and maneuverability and weight savings but I’ve hunted plenty with an 06 and never really noticed the difference.
3 vs 4 in the magazine doesn't really matter to me in a hunting rig.
Lees recoil of the 280 sounds more appealing as I wouldn’t hunt with the brake. The larger wound channel sounds like a plus as well.
Maintaining 2000 fps at 675 is plenty good for any hunting rifle. Assuming that the 280 ai starts to see a significant drop in velocity and has quite a bit more bullet drop past 675 as compared to the 6.8. So the 6.8 would shine at distances of 675 plus.
One of the reasons that I was leaning towards a 280 ai was I wanted to build a 6.5-06 but didn’t want the hassle of fire forming so the 280 ai quickly became a strong substitute

Build a 6.5-280ai if that’s what you really want and you don’t want to fireform. 280ai bushing die with the appropriate size bushing and you’re set. In reality, fireforming on an appropriately chambered Ackley is just shooting. It shouldn’t be a chore.


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[#publiclands]

Build a 6.5-280ai if that’s what you really want and you don’t want to fireform. 280ai bushing die with the appropriate size bushing and you’re set. In reality, fireforming on an appropriately chambered Ackley is just shooting. It shouldn’t be a chore.


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Yeah I hear ya … but still takes time , components, and barrel life to do it

Thought about doing it with 280 ammo if I go 280 ai route

 

[z987k]

Exactly the information that I was looking for. Out past 500 is a distance that I don’t see myself shooting in any hunting scenarios often so to me they are the same.
I’ve never owned a short action magnum so I guess that’s a though question for me to answer other than it would be cool to try but it has never really been a want but I do like standard short actions for their short throw and maneuverability and weight savings but I’ve hunted plenty with an 06 and never really noticed the difference.
3 vs 4 in the magazine doesn't really matter to me in a hunting rig.
Lees recoil of the 280 sounds more appealing as I wouldn’t hunt with the brake. The larger wound channel sounds like a plus as well.
Maintaining 2000 fps at 675 is plenty good for any hunting rifle. Assuming that the 280 ai starts to see a significant drop in velocity and has quite a bit more bullet drop past 675 as compared to the 6.8. So the 6.8 would shine at distances of 675 plus.
One of the reasons that I was leaning towards a 280 ai was I wanted to build a 6.5-06 but didn’t want the hassle of fire forming so the 280 ai quickly became a strong substitute

The less recoil is assuming the rifles weigh the same. If they don't then that's out the window.
The actual range they are good for is entirely dependent on the bullet and not really the case with these two against each other. If you choose different bullets for each it'll change quite a bit. But the 165 and 168 ABLR are so similar in BC, even out to 1000 yards, there's not enough difference to matter.

 

[#publiclands]

The less recoil is assuming the rifles weigh the same. If they don't then that's out the window.
The actual range they are good for is entirely dependent on the bullet and not really the case with these two against each other. If you choose different bullets for each it'll change quite a bit. But the 165 and 168 ABLR are so similar in BC, even out to 1000 yards, there's not enough difference to matter.

Well it’s still a good comparison. I really don’t think I’d have to go any heavier than the 168s for elk or even oryx. So out to 500 I’d be good. And sounds like out to 1000 they are the same as well.

But if I did choose to go with heavier 175-195 in the 280 how would the comparison look then? Would the 6.8 really start to pull away and leave the 280 ai in the dust?

yes I do understand if you go with different bullets it’s a different comparison. I’m considering a browning x bolt pro in either caliber so that weight and recoil comparison will remain the same.

 

[z987k]

Well it’s still a good comparison. I really don’t think I’d have to go any heavier than the 168s for elk or even oryx. So out to 500 I’d be good. And sounds like out to 1000 they are the same as well.

But if I did choose to go with heavier 175-195 in the 280 how would the comparison look then? Would the 6.8 really start to pull away and leave the 280 ai in the dust?

yes I do understand if you go with different bullets it’s a different comparison. I’m considering a browning x bolt pro in either caliber so that weight and recoil comparison will remain the same.

With the berger EOL line for both you're starting to eat case capacity. More so with the 280ai than the 6.8W, especially if you build the 6.8 on a long action. The 7mm does have a good lead on BC though, but the 6.8 is going to start a lot faster due to it being 25gr lighter and the powder different with those two bullets seated to normal length.

At 500y 280ai max load with the 195EOL 10mph crosswind 9.4MOA drop, 2.3moa drift.
6.8w with the 170eol 8.4 drop 2.4 drift.
2000fps is at 675y(280ai), and 725y(6.8w)

Drop is kind of irrelevant at distance since you'd be dialing. You can see at hunting ranges, the wind drift is within 0.1 MOA. So again it doesn't really matter. By 1000 the BC of the 7mm has finally overcome the 6.8's speed advantage in drift to the tune of .4MOA better, about 4 inches.

 

[#publiclands]

With the berger EOL line for both you're starting to eat case capacity. More so with the 280ai than the 6.8W, especially if you build the 6.8 on a long action. The 7mm does have a good lead on BC though, but the 6.8 is going to start a lot faster due to it being 25gr lighter and the powder different with those two bullets seated to normal length.

At 500y 280ai max load with the 195EOL 10mph crosswind 9.4MOA drop, 2.3moa drift.
6.8w with the 170eol 8.4 drop 2.4 drift.
2000fps is at 675y(280ai), and 725y(6.8w)

Drop is kind of irrelevant at distance since you'd be dialing. You can see at hunting ranges, the wind drift is within 0.1 MOA. So again it doesn't really matter. By 1000 the BC of the 7mm has finally overcome the 6.8's speed advantage in drift to the tune of .4MOA better, about 4 inches.

So it looks like at around the 675 mark the 280 is at its optimal hunting and killing range and will start falling off at distances farther than that. If at 1000 yards the difference is really exposed that is irrelevant to me for a hunting rifle and as amateur long range shooter.

So looks like if you want one gun for the 160 plus the 6.8 is probably the best route to take but the 280 is really close out to 675-700

 

[wyosam]

So it looks like at around the 675 mark the 280 is at its optimal hunting and killing range and will start falling off at distances farther than that. If at 1000 yards the difference is really exposed that is irrelevant to me for a hunting rifle and as amateur long range shooter.

So looks like if you want one gun for the 160 plus the 6.8 is probably the best route to take but the 280 is really close out to 675-700

Flip a coin. For your stated use, these two can go right alongside a couple dozen other cartridges that are functionally identical on any game in North America from 500 in that will also work just great for banging steel much further.


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[z987k]

So it looks like at around the 675 mark the 280 is at its optimal hunting and killing range and will start falling off at distances farther than that. If at 1000 yards the difference is really exposed that is irrelevant to me for a hunting rifle and as amateur long range shooter.

So looks like if you want one gun for the 160 plus the 6.8 is probably the best route to take but the 280 is really close out to 675-700

Here's the thing though. If you can't figure all this out on your own, you're so far from being able to do it, you'll shoot a barrel out before you can competently shoot at those distances.