2500 class truck

[Fatcamp]

Couldn't be happier with our 17 F250 gas.

3k# payload, 43? gallon tank. Enough power to do what we need. It's been a great vehicle.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Couldn't be happier with our 17 F250 gas.

3k# payload, 43? gallon tank. Enough power to do what we need. It's been a great vehicle.

Only thing I think a guy loses with the gassers is mpg. I know, I know, you don't buy them for mpg, but if its a daily driver as well as a weekend hauler, it makes a difference over time. I averaged 16.9 mpg on our trip to WY, and that's with a 4" lift and 20" wheels and 32" tires.

I breifly owned a '15 super duty gasser, and I loved that truck. However, it got 11-12mpg whether I was pulling anything or not, and I hated going to the station every few days.

My farm truck is a '94 F250 460, and it's easier to measure gallons per mile on that baby. LOL!

 

[Snowwolfe]

Just for the OP's info:

I towed roughly 7K and had an estimated 3,000 pounds in the bed of my truck when I drove from TN to AK this past June. I averaged 10.4 mpg for the entire journey. Truck is a 24 F350 CC SB with the 7.3 and 4:30 gears. I rarely drove faster than low 60's. Had to refuel about every 250 miles to be on the safe side. Every 200 or so when on the Alcan Highway

 

[Brooks]

I'm on the other side of the fence. I'd much rather has a gas burner than a diesel.

I use to work on all my brother's company trucks that were diesel (6.7 CTD, 6.6 Dmax, 6.7PSD) and the price for parts and amount of labor to fix anything on them was silly.
After running numbers over and over we finally decided it would be more cost effective for him to sell all his diesels and swap back over to gas burners.
Funny part was after he sold all them expensive newer trucks he was able to use the money from one of them and bought 3 beaters that have been flawless well except the body and beds were beat up. But they are work trucks so no point in buying a pavement princess and be worried it's gonna get scratched.

So far in the past 3 years I swapped one transmission and one water pump on the 2500HD 6.0 trucks. So a total of $2700. Compared to the 10s thousands of dollars on the newer trucks for high pressure fuel pumps, injectors, turbos, head gaskets, CCV filters, EGR issues, DEF heaters, exhaust SCR/DEF issues and then ended up just deleting them.

I Have 480,000 on my '04 2500hd with original 6.0. Had to put a transmission and transfer case in it at about 345,000 miles. I pull a 40' gooseneck with it often. It's not gonna win any races but it gets the job done. And worse fuel mileage to date was hauling 29,000# lumber on the 40' gooseneck to New Orleans. That was 8.6mpg but I can't complain.
My brother's '18 ram had DEF issues and wouldn't let him get over 45mph so I hauled it down there.

Now I'm building a new engine for my truck for next year. Can start over fresh and add a turbo to it.

With those kind of problems you either bought some lemons or you have workers driving the trucks that don’t have a penny invested and drive them like that. We had one F250 with a gas motor and got rid of it within a year because when it was loaded it would fall flat on its face. The diesel trucks beat it in fuel, power and everyday reliability as a heavy duty work truck.

 

[tdhanses]

Another thing to consider is if you’ll tow in the mountains coming down grades, the gas trucks will never compete with the control and ability to rarely use your brakes which is a big plus on the diesels. Engine braking is huge imo.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

For me, the best part of driving a diesel vs. a gasser, especially for distance on the interstate or 2-lanes, is the constant power and torque. That 6 speed Allison lives around 1800 RPM and stays there, rarely shifting unless ascending or descending a grade. IMO only, 5 speeds are too few, and anything over 6 is too "busy". The '19 RAM Limited I had with the 8 speed Hemi couldn't ever decide what gear it wanted to be in, and with the variable displacement system was constantly shifting or turning cylinders "on" or "off". With a mild aftermarket muffler replacement, it was annoying hearing the tone change constantly depending on what the computer was trying to do. My '15 RAM Laramie Ecodiesel pulled my boat and twin axle trailer better than that hemi.

 

[tdhanses]

For me, the best part of driving a diesel vs. a gasser, especially for distance on the interstate or 2-lanes, is the constant power and torque. That 6 speed Allison lives around 1800 RPM and stays there, rarely shifting unless ascending or descending a grade. IMO only, 5 speeds are too few, and anything over 6 is too "busy". The '19 RAM Limited I had with the 8 speed Hemi couldn't ever decide what gear it wanted to be in, and with the variable displacement system was constantly shifting or turning cylinders "on" or "off". With a mild aftermarket muffler replacement, it was annoying hearing the tone change constantly depending on what the computer was trying to do. My '15 RAM Laramie Ecodiesel pulled my boat and twin axle trailer better than that hemi.

The new HD GM trucks now have an Allison 10spd, gas or diesel.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

The new HD GM trucks now have an Allison 10spd, gas or diesel.

Ugh... No thanks.

Life is simpler with diesel, 6 speeds, and straight pipes, without EGRs, DEF, and VDT.

 

[farmermail]

I pull more than I think I do
Starting in the spring for turkey and bear then all summer for camping and then all fall for hunting. Take a break in the winter then start all over again in March/April. I live in Idaho so it’s always up and down mountains

I have a 2013 Ram 2500 diesel. Pull a lot, similar to yourself. Deleting, well, just not worth it from a financial sense. You don't get an extra 10 mpg or anything close, maybe 2 or 3? Power, sure. But stock these trucks have a ton already. If I were getting another rig, Duramax for sure (MPG is a lot better), 8ft bed (wheeler or whatever), 3500. 3500 GM rides better than either Ram or Ford 2500, hands down. Yes, more expensive to level or lift, but if you are getting a 2500 or 3500 diesel, you really aren't building an off road rig anyways.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I have a 2013 Ram 2500 diesel. Pull a lot, similar to yourself. Deleting, well, just not worth it from a financial sense. You don't get an extra 10 mpg or anything close, maybe 2 or 3? Power, sure. But stock these trucks have a ton already. If I were getting another rig, Duramax for sure (MPG is a lot better), 8ft bed (wheeler or whatever), 3500. 3500 GM rides better than either Ram or Ford 2500, hands down. Yes, more expensive to level or lift, but if you are getting a 2500 or 3500 diesel, you really aren't building an off road rig anyways.

All tue, and the one thing I would add is that deleting also positively affects longevity, especially if you want to keep the truck a really long time. Fewer moving parts, fewer electrical parts, fewer sensors, and much cleaner burn when you're not feeding exhaust, soot, and unburnt fuel back into the intake.

A couple good examples of what is lurking inside a Duramax with 180k miles. Notice the EGR ports are 75% constricted or more with soot and filth. The y-bridge is also restricted and full of garbage. I don't have a picture, but the turbos get fouled with oil vapor from the retarded factory PVC routing as well. Its amazing how many miles stock motors can go without a serious failure with all this crap.

 

[Alpine4x4]

As a point of reference my 2014 3500 Laramie 4wd short bed with the sunroof had almost 4000# of payload.

Yeah my 2012 payload is 2760# per the bodybuilder sheet and I know from scaling it with my family in it, my toolbox and tools/straps its around 8200# with a full tank of fuel. That puts my remaining payload under 2000lbs...

 

[Mxracer532]

I went Ford this time simply because the new SDs are so darn nice and Ram seems to have zero intentions of updating things. My last two 3500s were both Rams. A 2014 and a 2019 in addition to the 2020 Power Wagon I just traded. ZERO issues with any of them. Drop Thuren coils and shocks in the front and they ride amazing for what they are also. If a 23+ Super Duty is out of your budget I would not leave Ram out of the mix.

Personally, the GM trucks are a non starter for me since they won't fit larger tires easily and they don't have a solid front axle. I like to run 37s for ride purposes (way better in the dirt than anything smaller) and like the strength of a solid axle.

2020+ Duramax can fit 37s. yes the older ones that was an issue.

 

[Mxracer532]

Be aware when looking at Rams, the 2500 rear end is coil sprung and does ride significantly better than the leaf sprung 3500 rear end. That said, the 3500 tows much better because it is stiffer. If payload is of concern you will want a 13+ Ram 3500 as the 2010-2012 are only registered at 10,001 and leave you with around 2800lbs of payload which can be maxed easily.

Also to reiterate, after 2018 they went to the CP4 pump which is problematic. (Ford and Chevy have been using it for awhile and still do. Its one of the reasons everyones smaller diesel trucks get ragged on, it just fails). Ram went back to the CP3 in I believe 21 but with the new 2025's they are going to a redesigned CP4. Theres also the lifter issue as mentioned before as well (21+ I believe).

CP4 is incorrect. HP4 is what GM runs now. CP4s were garbage. HP4s are a non issue.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

CP4s were garbage.

 

[Mxracer532]

I have a 2013 Ram 2500 diesel. Pull a lot, similar to yourself. Deleting, well, just not worth it from a financial sense. You don't get an extra 10 mpg or anything close, maybe 2 or 3? Power, sure. But stock these trucks have a ton already. If I were getting another rig, Duramax for sure (MPG is a lot better), 8ft bed (wheeler or whatever), 3500. 3500 GM rides better than either Ram or Ford 2500, hands down. Yes, more expensive to level or lift, but if you are getting a 2500 or 3500 diesel, you really aren't building an off road rig anyways.

I always laugh when guys say they lift and put 35-37s or whatever on their diesel like they are an offroading wheeling machine. (Thats what the side by side your towing is for)

OP
I dont daily my trucks but I went from a 5.7 08 Tundra towing a 24ft Creekside travel trailer (8500+lbs) to a 07 LBZ Duramax with 140k. Deleted EFI live whatever and the truck was problem free for the next 8 yrs and sold a few weeks back with 192k. I have since replaced it with a 2021 2500HD LTZ with 143k on it from basically a family member who owns a fertilizer company and had 4 of them all identical trucks. I have every oil, fuel filter ect...... record from day 1. I got this truck for $38k. My brother purchased one of the other trucks identical to mine. The only truck that had any issue was my brothers right after he purchased it and it was the def injector. $1k fix but he put that $ towards the weight loss. I will tell you this much there is no comparison when you go from gas to diesel. The new ones are a freaking space ship inside. The towing camera system is amazing on my Silverado.
Also resale value was previously mentioned. I purchase my 07 with 140k for $20k cash. I sold it with just shy of 193k for $22,500. (NOT GONNA HAPPEN WITH A GASSER)

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I have a 05 2500 5.9 cummins (currently for sale) and a 2021 6.7 2500 cummins and they both are pulling brutes. You can't beat the torque of an in line 6. The 5.9 is great because you can avoid all of the emissions b.s. but after getting used to the newer truck the 5.9 is starting to feel like, and sound like, driving around in a farm tractor.

You can't go wrong with anything with a cummins in it as long as you maintain it properly and keep an eye on your trans temp.

The problem has never been with cummins, its the rest of the truck that is garbage. Owned a 2020 that I bought brand new and had nothing but problems.

 

[deltadukman]

I was kind of in your spot with a Tundra a while back. I bought a 23 F-250 with the 7.3 and 4:30 gears and 10 speed transmission(Tremor). The people downing the gas motors don't know what they are speaking about. I love my truck. I will say, it's not a 6.7 by any stretch, but it's right for what I do. Haul a big SxS and a 10k lb center console. I know a lot of people that have modern diesels for various reasons, most are contractors(I'm in the insurance business). Just about every one of them told me that unless you are towing 10k+ multiple times a week, the diesel isn't worth it. Yes it is powerful, it is also $10,000 more, $1/gal or more fuel, DEF, fuel pump and rail failure, more often and more expensive maintenance, etc. I don't trust the modern EPA diesel. It's not if, but when it's going to let you down. And then you hope the parts are available.

 

[pacoalcracker]

I have a 2024 F450 crewcab 8' box dually w/ 6.7 diesel. There is nothing on the road like it...nothing. It's a hauling, pulling and stopping monster. A ton of room in the cab too. However, I still like driving my 2003 Dodge Ram quadcab 6.5' box 5.9 Cummins w/111,000 on it and always garaged...zero rust. That F450 rides better than any 2500HD I ever had, and I've had a few. The warranty makes it worthwhile if you do have an issue so no big deal. Plus, The F450 has the highest resale value for the longest period of time than any truck on the road. Probably because there isn't many built and most need to be ordered and you wait 6 months+.

 

[Alpine4x4]

CP4 is incorrect. HP4 is what GM runs now. CP4s were garbage. HP4s are a non issue.

Yes as of 2016 looks like, prior to is the CP4.

CP4's are garbage and I would avoid any engine with one.

https://www.xtremediesel.com/blog/2021/09/01/what-is-a-cp4-pump-and-why-does-it-fail/#:~:text=The%20CP4%20was%20standard%20equipment,when%20the%20L5P%20was%20released.

 

[Fatcamp]

Only thing I think a guy loses with the gassers is mpg. I know, I know, you don't buy them for mpg, but if its a daily driver as well as a weekend hauler, it makes a difference over time. I averaged 16.9 mpg on our trip to WY, and that's with a 4" lift and 20" wheels and 32" tires.

I breifly owned a '15 super duty gasser, and I loved that truck. However, it got 11-12mpg whether I was pulling anything or not, and I hated going to the station every few days.

My farm truck is a '94 F250 460, and it's easier to measure gallons per mile on that baby. LOL!

My truck wouldn't get 17 mpg downhill with stock tires.