25-06 and Elk

[fwafwow]

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I will never kill more elk with a single cartridge, than I did with a 25-05 when I was young. Shooting all of those elk with a 25-06 is the exact reason I use much larger rifles as an adult. The energy sucks for elk. It's a marginal cartridge, and most people damn well know it. You can drop one with a .243 to the heart... hell I've seen a bull killed with a .17rem right between the eyes. Allow a margin of error for a less than perfect shot by using more gun. Show some respect to the elk, which live in country where rests are imperfect, wind is a factor, and at altitudes that can make steady breathing difficult after a scramble. When you're out of breathe from scrambling over a rise, trying to nail a bull that's about to disappear.... (or staring at a trophy with a less than ideal angle).... you'll realize that the perfect shot isn't always the shot you get.

.25-06 shooting a 135 grain Berger over 60 grains of VV N570 at a hair under 3100.

Input Parameters
Bullet Diameter	0.257 inches	Zero Range	200 yards
Bullet Weight	135 grains	Sight Height	1.50 in
Ballistic Coefficient	0.650	Muzzle Velocity	3095 fps
Temperature	59 F	Wind Speed	10.00 mph
Altitude	1500 feet	Wind Direction	9 o'clock
Inclination	0 degrees	Berger Bullets	Copyright 2013

Range Card
Range	Velocity (fps)	Energy (ft-lbs)	Elevation (inches)	Windage (inches)	TOF (s)
100	2950	2610	1.25	0.46	0.10
200	2811	2369	-0.00	1.77	0.20
300	2676	2147	-5.64	4.01	0.31
400	2545	1942	-16.14	7.23	0.43
500	2418	1753	-32.00	11.50	0.55
600	2295	1579	-53.81	16.90	0.67
700	2175	1418	-82.22	23.52	0.81
800	2059	1271	-117.97	31.47	0.95
900	1946	1136	-161.93	40.84	1.10

What's your argument again? If you're an "energy" guy, and you believe in the mythical "1,500 minimum" for elk, this load meets your "requirements" out to 700 yards. Marginal? I think not.

EDIT:

For comparison against the .30-06 and 6.5 PRC, two universally renowned elk killers, the .25-06 holds it's own and then some.

 

[Ryan Avery]

My wife shot this one with a twin-turbo 6CM with a whooping 990 foot pounds. I kept waiting for the old girl to get up. There is enough data on RS alone to prove the point that energy means nothing! Bullets matter!!

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

View attachment 503269
My wife shot this one with a twin-turbo 6CM with a whooping 990 foot pounds. I kept waiting for the old girl to get up. There is enough data on RS alone to prove the point that energy means nothing! Bullets matter!!

^^^100

 

[S-3 ranch]

.25-06 shooting a 135 grain Berger over 60 grains of VV N570 at a hair under 3100.

Input Parameters
Bullet Diameter	0.257 inches	Zero Range	200 yards
Bullet Weight	135 grains	Sight Height	1.50 in
Ballistic Coefficient	0.650	Muzzle Velocity	3095 fps
Temperature	59 F	Wind Speed	10.00 mph
Altitude	1500 feet	Wind Direction	9 o'clock
Inclination	0 degrees	Berger Bullets	Copyright 2013

Range Card
Range	Velocity (fps)	Energy (ft-lbs)	Elevation (inches)	Windage (inches)	TOF (s)
100	2950	2610	1.25	0.46	0.10
200	2811	2369	-0.00	1.77	0.20
300	2676	2147	-5.64	4.01	0.31
400	2545	1942	-16.14	7.23	0.43
500	2418	1753	-32.00	11.50	0.55
600	2295	1579	-53.81	16.90	0.67
700	2175	1418	-82.22	23.52	0.81
800	2059	1271	-117.97	31.47	0.95
900	1946	1136	-161.93	40.84	1.10

What's your argument again? If you're an "energy" guy, and you believe in the mythical "1,500 minimum" for elk, this load meets your "requirements" out to 700 yards. Marginal? I think not.

EDIT:

For comparison against the .30-06 and 6.5 PRC, two universally renowned elk killers, the .25-06 holds it's own and then some.

View attachment 503274

Example

Example calculation[edit]​

Using the standard 7.62×51mm NATO cartridge, the cartridge's characteristics are:

• Bullet mass = 9.5 grams
  
  147 grains
• Muzzle velocity = 833 meters per second
  
  2733 feet per second
• Bullet diameter = 7.82 millimetres
  
  .308 inches

The calculation is:

Therefore the Taylor KO factor for the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge is 17.9.

Note: The product of mass and velocity is a quantity called, in modern physics, "momentum". Conservation of momentum is a characteristic of non-deformable collisions. A bullet, hitting hard bone, would transfer most of the impulse to that bone mass.

 

[Laelkhunter]

View attachment 503269
My wife shot this one with a twin-turbo 6CM with a whooping 990 foot pounds. I kept waiting for the old girl to get up. There is enough data on RS alone to prove the point that energy means nothing! Bullets matter!!

That's a big cow !! Congrats to the missus. What bullet? Was it a twin turbo?? Please excuse my ignorance, not familiar with twin-turbo

 

[Ryan Avery]

Then some will say “that was just a cow elk Ryan”

Here's a 320” bull killed with 1050 foot-pounds.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[fwafwow]

Thread '.25 Cal (Quarter Bore) / Big Game Success - 25 Creed, 25-284, 25-06, 25 PRC, 25 SAUM' https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...-25-creed-25-284-25-06-25-prc-25-saum.288587/


There we go.

Thanks for the link. I did a quick search and saw only two cows and one bull, so I guess 0.25" isn't sufficient. I've always heard something about width as being important.

Example


Note: The product of mass and velocity is a quantity called, in modern physics, "momentum". Conservation of momentum is a characteristic of non-deformable collisions. A bullet, hitting hard bone, would transfer most of the impulse to that bone mass.

So if I'm understanding this TKOF correctly, including from this site (https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/what-is-the-taylor-ko-factor/), the 6CM (TKOF of 10.9 cited) only kills half as well as my 30-06 (listing a TKOF of 21.8)? Does it matter at all that he's been dead for over 50 years?

What's the desired TKOF for elk?

 

[Ryan Avery]

1176 foot pounds

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Huntin Fool]

I love 25-06 but I’m mostly a deer hunter so I can’t comment on the elk. But to compare a broadhead to a bullet, just doesn’t make sense

 

[Ryan Avery]

1250 foot pounds.....

 

[Formidilosus]

1250 foot pounds.....
View attachment 503285

Psshhh….

335 ft-lbs

 

[Ryan Avery]

1144 foot pounds

 

[fwafwow]

But to compare a broadhead to a bullet, just doesn’t make sense

I guess it depends on which side of this debate one falls on. From a logic perspective, it's hard to say that a 25-06 (as an example) is insufficient to carry, but an arrow with a broadhead is (in each case ignoring brain shots and other red herrings). And if the BH works, but not the 25-06, what about the latter fails? The diameter, the velocity, or something else? And what is sufficient?

 

[Ryan Avery]

Psshhh….

335 ft-lbs
View attachment 503293

What was Randy's 600-ish foot pounds?

 

[fwafwow]

 

[Ryan Avery]

940 foot pounds

 

[westslopelaker]

Speaking from experience, the 25-06 is a perfectly suitable elk caliber within about 350 yards. I've shot a bunch of elk with a 100 grain ttsx and it just plain works! Anyone who says otherwise is just making stuff up.

 

[littlerhorner]

Psshhh….

335 ft-lbs
View attachment 503293

Time to head out west with my 22 WMR! YA BUDDY!

 

[Formidilosus]

What was Randy's 600-ish foot pounds?

680’ish I believe.