25-06 and Elk

[Ryan Avery]

680 Foot pounds.... These threads are awesome.... I am out

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Example

Example calculation[edit]​

Using the standard 7.62×51mm NATO cartridge, the cartridge's characteristics are:

• Bullet mass = 9.5 grams
  
  147 grains
• Muzzle velocity = 833 meters per second
  
  2733 feet per second
• Bullet diameter = 7.82 millimetres
  
  .308 inches

The calculation is:

Therefore the Taylor KO factor for the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge is 17.9.

Note: The product of mass and velocity is a quantity called, in modern physics, "momentum". Conservation of momentum is a characteristic of non-deformable collisions. A bullet, hitting hard bone, would transfer most of the impulse to that bone mass.

This formula, just like measuring energy, doesn't take bullet construction or minimum expansion velocity into account. There are way smarter and more experienced guys on here than me that have piled up big game in the hundreds without a .30 cal or magnum. Visit the threads that guys have posted on this thread already and tell us if the real world changes your mind. Ryan has already posted 3 examples of dead bulletproof elk killed with pea shooters with impact enery far under the mythical 1500 minimum.

 

[Formidilosus]

Time to head out west with my 22 WMR! YA BUDDY!

I killed and/or was the spotter, as well conducting basic field necropsies on 20 elk so far this year, with shots from 80 yards to 803 yards. Every elk that got touched by a bullet was recovered.

6 elk with 223’s, 80 yards to 803 yards
6 elk with 6mm’s, 80 yards to 647 yards
6 elk with 6.5’s, 80 yards to 637 yards
2 elk with 300 mags, 350 yards to 636 yards


What was has been your experience with killing elk this year? Or any experience with killing to form your conclusions.

 

[littlerhorner]

I really dosen't make any more difference to me than it probably does you, but to the guy that dosen't know any better, traveling 100s of miles and that may be one crack at an elk, that individual may not want to push the envelope with minimums. But we are all adults and make our own decisions. Good luck.

 

[Formidilosus]

I really dosen't make any more difference to me than it probably does you, but to the guy that dosen't know any better, traveling 100s of miles and that may be one crack at an elk, that individual may not want to push the envelope with minimums. But we are all adults and make our own decisions. Good luck.

How does he or you determine minimum?

 

[ARK_Ginger]

Psshhh….

335 ft-lbs
View attachment 503293

I guess I've got to ask, TMK?

 

[Formidilosus]

I guess I've got to ask, TMK?

Correct.

 

[jrkananen]

This formula, just like measuring energy, doesn't take bullet construction or minimum expansion velocity into account. There are way smarter and more experienced guys on here than me that have piled up big game in the hundreds without a .30 cal or magnum. Visit the threads that guys have posted on this thread already and tell us if the real world changes your mind. Ryan has already posted 3 examples of dead bulletproof elk killed with pea shooters with impact enery far under the mythical 1500 minimum.

came here to mention this, IMO if you're looking for the maximum distance your round will be lethal, the minimum expansion velocity is more useful than some arbitrary "minimum" energy required.
but to echo all the other comments, there is no "minimum" caliber, it's down to what the individual shooter is comfortable with shooting, at their comfortable range, where they can reasonably expect an ethical kill

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

How does he or you determine minimum?

Indeed, since the table I pasted in here already debunked the 1500lbs of energy and "marginal" comments regarding the .25-06 as far out to 700 yards.

My guess is, like I did a couple years ago until being enlightened by RS experts, he and other naysayers on this thread are still drinking the marketing and dogma kool aid from a bygone age.

 

[35WhelenAI]

3256 ft/lbs. 2708 fps impact vel.


2727 ft/lbs. 2478 fps impact vel.


2420 ft/bs. 2334 fps impact vel.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

came here to mention this, IMO if you're looking for the maximum distance your round will be lethal, the minimum expansion velocity is more useful than some arbitrary "minimum" energy required.

^^^This right here...

but to echo all the other comments, there is no "minimum" caliber, it's down to what the individual shooter is comfortable with shooting, at their comfortable range, where they can reasonably expect an ethical kill

There are legal minimums that can vary across the country, but I get your point.

One approach would be to do the following.

1. Determine your personal maximum range (eyesight, amount of range time in a given year, etc...)
2. Do some research and identify several cartridge/bullet combinations with an impact velocity of more than 1,600fps at said maximum range (2,000fps if using copper monos).
3. Compare recoil between these various cartridges, and choose the option with the least recoil out of the bunch (all things being equal, the average shooter will shoot a lighter recoiling round more often and with greater repeatable accuracy).

This can be complicated by employing a muzzle device to reduce recoil, but I think these 3 steps may help a majority of guys wanting to buy a new rifle.

 

[S-3 ranch]

I really dosen't make any more difference to me than it probably does you, but to the guy that dosen't know any better, traveling 100s of miles and that may be one crack at an elk, that individual may not want to push the envelope with minimums. But we are all adults and make our own decisions. Good luck.

I’m in same boat
doesn’t seem to matter much between 25-06 and 6.5 cm ( 115 vs 140 partion)
lot o folks coming west looking at a calibers see love for the 6.5cm and buy a “ western rifle “ , imo 80% of folks can’t even shoot to a 1000 FPE 25-06 to 300wm

 

[30338]

Many years ago sitting by a campfire, a guy told my 13 year old son that his 25-06 shooting 115 combined technologies was too weak for elk. Next day my son dropped a nice 5x5 bull at about 150 yards in his tracks using that gun.

The very next year that same guy shooting a 300 winchester with 180 partitions, gut shot a bull and never recovered it. Life is funny sometimes.

 

[S-3 ranch]

Many years ago sitting by a campfire, a guy told my 13 year old son that his 25-06 shooting 115 combined technologies was too weak for elk. Next day my son dropped a nice 5x5 bull at about 150 yards in his tracks using that gun.

The very next year that same guy shooting a 300 winchester with 180 partitions, gut shot a bull and never recovered it. Life is funny sometimes.

Yep, sometimes it’s the nut loose behind the stock that makes the difference

 

[35WhelenAI]

Many years ago sitting by a campfire, a guy told my 13 year old son that his 25-06 shooting 115 combined technologies was too weak for elk. Next day my son dropped a nice 5x5 bull at about 150 yards in his tracks using that gun.

The very next year that same guy shooting a 300 winchester with 180 partitions, gut shot a bull and never recovered it. Life is funny sometimes.

BP (bullet placement) talks, BS (bad shooting) walks.

 

[Rich M]

“”
Taylor Knock Out Values.

And it uses the estimated energy for one shot kills on game.

It uses a recommended energy and a minimum energy for each animal.

On Elk it recommends 2000 ft/lbs and 1500ft/lbs as a minimum. this is at the Point of Impact.

Deer are 1200 ft/lbs and 1000 ft/lbs minimum.

These values are conservative but are a good place to start.

You could use less energy but the results would vary especially if shot placement was not
the best.””
pondoro Taylor

i typically follow this rule of thumb, I like DRT because I hate tracking

Elmer Kieth killed everything w 357 mag and lead solids? Someone did…. Sure doesnt hit those numbers.

Looked it up - Col Wesson did it. Probably used a Kieth style bullet - wide metaplat...



Shoot em right and they die. 77 gr 223/556 or larger…

I hate tracking too.

 

[id_jon]

Indeed, since the table I pasted in here already debunked the 1500lbs of energy and "marginal" comments regarding the .25-06 as far out to 700 yards.

My guess is, like I did a couple years ago until being enlightened by RS experts, he and other naysayers on this thread are still drinking the marketing and dogma kool aid from a bygone age.

But I thought marketing of cartridges didn't happen before hornady invented the peashooter 6.5cm???

 

[Wrench]

I love these threads. Guys telling guy it can't be....even though to many of the audience....it has been.

Stop asking questions and go do some experiencing.

 

[Kenai_dtracker]

680 Foot pounds.... These threads are awesome.... I am out

You sir, are living my dream!

 

[LoggerDan]

How many lost animals? How many one shot kills? What kinda tracking jobs? The truth now….


who would take it grizzly hunting?