.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Igloo]

The guy who does the Chopping Block and ARFCOM gel tests on youtube is telling me that if bullets like the 65gr Gameking and 77gr TMK are performing differently in animals than the way they woefully underpenetrate in his tests, I must be gut shooting deer with grandpappys mini 14.

Mind you the tests are shot like 2 feet from the block, which is fine if you have a focus on self defense, but even from an 11" barrel, you're gonna get more than 13-14" penetration from a 77gr TMK at 2500 fps or like 10.5 inches from a 65gr Gameking at 2773 fps. Thats over 100 yards if you start it from a rifle barrel (vs carbine)

You can't make this stuff up.

What would I have done without guys like this to "educate" me on real world bullet performance haha

 

[Deere_Man]

Anybody have 10-12 rounds of black hills Tmk’s they’re willing to sell me? Thanks

It’s better to just buy 50!

5.56 77GR Black Hills Tipped Match King TMK (D556N19)

5.56 77GR Black Hills Tipped Match King TMK (D556N19) Black Hills' focus is on handcrafting ammunition for serious folks who demand it works every time without fail. No magic loads. No gimmickry. They are certainly not well versed in corporate speak either. Instead, they stake our reputation on...

www.bonefrogammunition.com

 

[Deere_Man]

The guy who does the Chopping Block and ARFCOM gel tests on youtube is telling me that if bullets like the 65gr Gameking and 77gr TMK are performing differently in animals than the way they woefully underpenetrate in his tests, I must be gut shooting deer with grandpappys mini 14.


You can't make this stuff up.

What would I have done without guys like this to "educate" me on real world bullet performance haha

Doesn’t he perform tests at 15 yards or something not pertinent to hunting scenarios? I prefer a 100 yard gel test. Or at least 50.

 

[Igloo]

Doesn’t he perform tests at 15 yards or something not pertinent to hunting scenarios? I prefer a 100 yard gel test. Or at least 50.

Its like 2 feet lol but velocity is velocity.

What distance is a 77gr gonna be at 2500 fps considering the speed at which many of us start them at? Or a 65gr Gameking at 2773? Getting well under a foot of penetration?

Shoot a deer/pig at 75 yards with a Gameking and get 10 inches of penetration? I dunno man. They exit from what I see. 77gr TMK often do too...I'd see maybe a 69 getting 14" of penetration and rarely exiting broadside deer at 2500 FPS but if anyone has shot em more than me I'd stand corrected.


That said I understand. Makes sense cause he does stuff with defensive shooting in mind but guys who shoot hunting bullets that close...yeah, no thanks

 

[Eleven]

Penetration isn’t necessarily the goal here. Its really the wound profile that is more important. A short neck,then a massive wound cavity that encompasses the vitals. Because these bullets upset so reliably they have a tendency to turn the temporary wound cavity into a permanent wound cavity because of the fragments. This is a good thing. It means that the interior is a mess even if the bullet doesn’t exit.

This is a screen grab from another thread and is showing the profile of a different bullet, but you get the idea. The interior, from just barely inside to the offside, is a massive mess of goo. Even if the bullet ‘only gets 10” of penetration’. How wide is a deer?

 

[Igloo]

Penetration isn’t necessarily the goal here. Its really the wound profile that is more important. A short neck,then a massive wound cavity that encompasses the vitals. Because these bullets upset so reliably they have a tendency to turn the temporary wound cavity into a permanent wound cavity because of the fragments. This is a good thing. It means that the interior is a mess even if the bullet doesn’t exit.

This is a screen grab from another thread and is showing the profile of a different bullet, but you get the idea. The interior, from just barely inside to the offside, is a massive mess of goo. Even if the bullet ‘only gets 10” of penetration’. How wide is a deer?
View attachment 1037358

Respectfully, I know that. And never stated or implied that penetration is a goal or what we are looking for from these bullets.

Regardless of if its the goal or not, the point I was getting at was "does it behave like that in an animal (vs the gel) or does it behave differently"?

 

[mt terry d]

Just saw this today.

I would like to see a Sierra rep discuss similar design/mfg/testing/ goals process
of the TMKs

 

[h2so4]

Anybody have 10-12 rounds of black hills Tmk’s they’re willing to sell me? Thanks

I got you. Send me a pm

 

[Eleven]

That's fast. What powder do you use?

You talkin’ to me? Sorry I missed this…. For my reloads I’m using 23.5gr 8208xbr and its getting about 2650 in my 16” barrels. Ive also been using some Stand1 loads and they are smoking at about 2725 in a 16” barrel. With those i’m getting the ~2500+ in my 10.5” barrels. They are losing about 25fps per inch cut.

 

[Eleven]

Respectfully, I know that. And never stated or implied that penetration is a goal or what we are looking for from these bullets.

Regardless of if its the goal or not, the point I was getting at was "does it behave like that in an animal (vs the gel) or does it behave differently"?

Sorry, man. I guess I didn’t really get your question. I haven’t and I’m not going to watch that video, so I don’t know what they are saying those bullets are doing. I also don’t know if they are using calibrated ballistic gel and all that. I can tell you that the TMKs that I have used on live animals have been nothing short of destructive and all have done exactly as that illustration I posted shows: a short neck, lots of destruction with a wide permanent wound cavity and usually some pieces going out the other side.

 

[Chris in TN]

So apparently I did a thing last night.

I 'won' a used, unknown history, 8-twist tikka .223 barrel.

It's shorter and threaded. My plan is to remove the long heavy 12 twist barrel from my Tikka 595 and be able to use 75-80 grain stuff in it. The 595 223 magazine will handle 2.42" so my plan would likely be to load something to 2.4". I have a pretty good idea on powders already on hand. I know the 77TMK would work and that's the easy button but since these will be loaded to 2.4" there's a part of me that would like to save the TMKs for use in an AR and load something with a different colored tip for easy ID as being bolt gun loads.

That means 75eldm, 80 eldm, or 80 eldx.

8 twist, most shooting will be at or near 660' elevation and temps could be anywhere from 10 degrees on up. Which would y'all choose as second place to the 77TMK?

 

[43.6N]

So apparently I did a thing last night.

I 'won' a used, unknown history, 8-twist tikka .223 barrel.

It's shorter and threaded. My plan is to remove the long heavy 12 twist barrel from my Tikka 595 and be able to use 75-80 grain stuff in it. The 595 223 magazine will handle 2.42" so my plan would likely be to load something to 2.4". I have a pretty good idea on powders already on hand. I know the 77TMK would work and that's the easy button but since these will be loaded to 2.4" there's a part of me that would like to save the TMKs for use in an AR and load something with a different colored tip for easy ID as being bolt gun loads.

That means 75eldm, 80 eldm, or 80 eldx.

8 twist, most shooting will be at or near 660' elevation and temps could be anywhere from 10 degrees on up. Which would y'all choose as second place to the 77TMK?

Congrats.
Add 80gr Berger to your list
And the new 69gr ELD-VT has the same bc as your 77tmk. Should be quite a bit cheaper too if you want a training load

 

[Q_Sertorius]

So apparently I did a thing last night.

I 'won' a used, unknown history, 8-twist tikka .223 barrel.

It's shorter and threaded. My plan is to remove the long heavy 12 twist barrel from my Tikka 595 and be able to use 75-80 grain stuff in it. The 595 223 magazine will handle 2.42" so my plan would likely be to load something to 2.4". I have a pretty good idea on powders already on hand. I know the 77TMK would work and that's the easy button but since these will be loaded to 2.4" there's a part of me that would like to save the TMKs for use in an AR and load something with a different colored tip for easy ID as being bolt gun loads.

That means 75eldm, 80 eldm, or 80 eldx.

8 twist, most shooting will be at or near 660' elevation and temps could be anywhere from 10 degrees on up. Which would y'all choose as second place to the 77TMK?

I’d look at the 69-grain options.

 

[Igloo]

Sorry, man. I guess I didn’t really get your question. I haven’t and I’m not going to watch that video, so I don’t know what they are saying those bullets are doing. I also don’t know if they are using calibrated ballistic gel and all that. I can tell you that the TMKs that I have used on live animals have been nothing short of destructive and all have done exactly as that illustration I posted shows: a short neck, lots of destruction with a wide permanent wound cavity and usually some pieces going out the other side.

There was never a question.

I'll make it as concise as I can.

Dudes upset cause I said 77gr TMKs and 65gr Gamekings go deeper in animals than they do in his gel. 2500 fps and 13-14" and 2770 and 10-11" respectively.

 

[NWBLKTAIL]

So apparently I did a thing last night.

I 'won' a used, unknown history, 8-twist tikka .223 barrel.

It's shorter and threaded. My plan is to remove the long heavy 12 twist barrel from my Tikka 595 and be able to use 75-80 grain stuff in it. The 595 223 magazine will handle 2.42" so my plan would likely be to load something to 2.4". I have a pretty good idea on powders already on hand. I know the 77TMK would work and that's the easy button but since these will be loaded to 2.4" there's a part of me that would like to save the TMKs for use in an AR and load something with a different colored tip for easy ID as being bolt gun loads.

That means 75eldm, 80 eldm, or 80 eldx.

8 twist, most shooting will be at or near 660' elevation and temps could be anywhere from 10 degrees on up. Which would y'all choose as second place to the 77TMK?

73 eldm

 

[Igloo]

73 eldm

Wasn't sure between those and the 69gr TMK here but the TMK was more available. 73gr sure doesn't seem lackin tho!

 

[NWBLKTAIL]

Wasn't sure between those and the 69gr TMK here but the TMK was more available. 73gr sure doesn't seem lackin tho!

Just seems to want to shoot with very little effort, worked for me with Xbr,TAC,varget

Going to try some H4895