.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[eric1115]

I understand this thread is about the ability and prowness of the 77gr TMK load.

Just purchased a IWI Zion 15 SPR with a 1-8" 18in barrel. Wanting to do most of my shooting with AAC 77gr OTM (the Hornady variety) because of it's cost per round.

Within sub 500yd distances, would the OTM be fine for things under 150lbs, such as smaller hogs and Texas whitetail and would they reliably tumble and fragment at these working distances and velocities?

Thank you for insight.

General consensus is that the 77OTM (whether Sierra, Nosler, or Hornady) is an erratic performer; you will get some great kills as it does sometimes upset well. However, you'll get lots of times where it pencils through with no upset.

77TMK, 73ELDM are the top performing AR mag length friendly options.

I shoot a ton of SMK's for practice, but switch to the TMK for hunting season, I get away with only shooting a few hundred TMK per year.

 

[LifeByTheWaters]

General consensus is that the 77OTM (whether Sierra, Nosler, or Hornady) is an erratic performer; you will get some great kills as it does sometimes upset well. However, you'll get lots of times where it pencils through with no upset.

77TMK, 73ELDM are the top performing AR mag length friendly options.

I shoot a ton of SMK's for practice, but switch to the TMK for hunting season, I get away with only shooting a few hundred TMK per year.

Likely what I'll end up doing. Thanks!

With OTM's should I expect entry wounds only if they frag out and/or pencil exit holes if they don't upset? Never a large exit wound?

 

[eric1115]

Likely what I'll end up doing. Thanks!

With OTM's should I expect entry wounds only if they frag out and/or pencil exit holes if they don't upset? Never a large exit wound?

Ehh, I've not put an OTM into a deer. I do keep an AR truck gun filled with them, and based on my coyote, badger, etc experience I'd expect them to tumble and exit big 1/3, tumble/fragment and probably no exit/small exit 1/3, and pencil through 1/3. Total guess though.

 

[Slickhill]

My experience with the 75 Hornady BTHP is that it really needs to hit some bone to be reliable and consistent. FWIW the same can be said for their 55gr BTHP too.

I don’t have tons of experience with them, probably 2-3 dozen pigs and 10-15 coyotes, but they were unpredictable unless I made sure to run them into a shoulder or hip. They worked great if you could land them on the shoulder.

 

[LifeByTheWaters]

Ehh, I've not put an OTM into a deer. I do keep an AR truck gun filled with them, and based on my coyote, badger, etc experience I'd expect them to tumble and exit big 1/3, tumble/fragment and probably no exit/small exit 1/3, and pencil through 1/3. Total guess though.

Thanks, time to out some copper to flesh and see what happens.

 

[kcormack]

My tikka loves the factory black hills 77 tmk but I get misfires about every 5th round due to the primers. The hornady match 223 73 grain eldm shoots well also and has been averaging 2670 and consistently shoots under an inch with a 20 inch ctr barrel.

RandyView attachment 847002

I have had a 20-30% Fail to Fire rate as well with the Black Hills factory 77 TMK out of a CZ 600 Alpha 223 bolt action. This is BH's 5.56 77 TMK offering that I have had the issue with. I assume you are referencing their 5.56 77 TMK as well?
Contacted Black Hills, stated they load that to 5.56 mil spec. and pointed out among other things a harder primer. So, it kind of is what it is with the FTF's. I have used several other brands of factory 5.56 with my 223 and had zero FTF issues.

 

[mtnwrunner]

I have had a 20-30% Fail to Fire rate as well with the Black Hills factory 77 TMK out of a CZ 600 Alpha 223 bolt action. This is BH's 5.56 77 TMK offering that I have had the issue with. I assume you are referencing there 5.56 77 TMK as well?
Contacted Black Hills, stated they load that to 5.56 mil spec. and pointed out among other things a harder primer. So, it kind of is what it is with the FTF's. I have used several other brands of factory 5.56 with my 223 and had zero FTF issues.

Exactly my findings as well. I've never had one misfire with other brands and fortunately it shoots those as well. I still shoot the 77 tmk's and save the ones that don't shoot for an AR.

Randy

 

[Tahr]

Not a TMK...Maker bullet. 62 grn, MV 3100fps. Angled 176 yards shot. Did a little twirl and dropped.


Entrence


Bullet was just under the skin here


Entrence through ribs with shoulder off. The bullet angled from this heart region right through the gut bag and you can see how the gut contents sort of hydronic'd back through the cavity. Vicious.

 

[Thegman]

Not a TMK...Maker bullet. 62 grn, MV 3100fps. Angled 176 yards shot. Did a little twirl and dropped.
View attachment 850742

Entrence
View attachment 850743

Bullet was just under the skin here
View attachment 850744

Entrence through ribs with shoulder off. The bullet angled from this heart region right through the gut bag and you can see how the gut contents sort of hydronic'd back through the cavity. Vicious.
View attachment 850745

What's your verdict on those 62 grain Makers so far and compared to other bullets you use? I'm really interested in trying those out as well.

Thanks for all your info. It's interesting to see all your terminal performance comparisons.

 

[Tahr]

What's your verdict on those 62 grain Makers so far and compared to other bullets you use? I'm really interested in trying those out as well.

Thanks for all your info. It's interesting to see all your terminal performance comparisons.

My verdict is that they are good. Kill well. Those petals are vicious. Their expansion threshold seems to be around 2000fps, but the contra is that they can be driven quite fast. Easy to get to shoot well. This was the first one Ive recovered, all others have past right through. 10 or so. Travel ok - I use a BC of .3
Probably as effective as Hammers but I do like how the Hammers shed their petals. Lots of organ churn.
In the monos Hammer and Maker both better performing than Barnes.
Im using Monos cos I shoot meat for charities.
Here in NZ Makers are $89/50 and the TMK $117/100. And Hammers nearly twice the price of the Maker per 50 (landed).

The 77TMK and heavy ELDM remain the gold standard but I doubt an average sort of hunter would tell any difference between the best monos and them. Would still end up with a dead deer near to where it was shot.

 

[LimeSpoon]

I have had a 20-30% Fail to Fire rate as well with the Black Hills factory 77 TMK out of a CZ 600 Alpha 223 bolt action. This is BH's 5.56 77 TMK offering that I have had the issue with. I assume you are referencing there 5.56 77 TMK as well?
Contacted Black Hills, stated they load that to 5.56 mil spec. and pointed out among other things a harder primer. So, it kind of is what it is with the FTF's. I have used several other brands of factory 5.56 with my 223 and had zero FTF issues.

Probably uses harder military primers to prevent slam fires in an AR and withstand higher pressures. It's very much the sort of loading made with a mind towards gas gun compatibility.

Kind of makes me wonder if they're using their own proprietary small rifle primers or some contract produced item these days. They changed from brass colored to silver colored primers at one point and the silver colored primers look super round post ignition. More what you would expect from a relatively mild .223 than a fairly hot loaded heavy 5.56.

 

[Nutkin13]

I have an 1980's vintage Remington Model Seven in .223 1/12 twist that I am considering rebarreling to something with a faster twist to accommodate longer bullets like the 77gr TMK or 80gr ELD.

Any leads or recommendations on a 18-20" 1/7" twist barrel?

 

[bcmntgoathunter.]

I have an 1980's vintage Remington Model Seven in .223 1/12 twist that I am considering rebarreling to something with a faster twist to accommodate longer bullets like the 77gr TMK or 80gr ELD.

Any leads or recommendations on a 18-20" 1/7" twist barrel?

Bench mark, and proof would be 2 top tier choices lots of quality barrels to be had but definitely the 1-7 " is the way to roll the 1-8" isn't bad but the 1-7" just allow use of everything 60-88 grains easily

I'm currently building a 223 ai on a tikka that's was a 1-8" 22" it's gonna get a 26" 1-7" twist ibi stainless .710" muzzel diam barrel basicly a medium heavy sporter barrel and will wear a night force nxs 2.5x10

 

[BigNate]

I have an 1980's vintage Remington Model Seven in .223 1/12 twist that I am considering rebarreling to something with a faster twist to accommodate longer bullets like the 77gr TMK or 80gr ELD.

Any leads or recommendations on a 18-20" 1/7" twist barrel?

I have one as well, but for deer it's been fine with 64gr Win PP & Nosler bsb.

 

[Nutkin13]

Any suggestions on length and contour? Will be wearing a 30 cal Nomad TIXC

 

[Steve300xcw]

I have an 1980's vintage Remington Model Seven in .223 1/12 twist that I am considering rebarreling to something with a faster twist to accommodate longer bullets like the 77gr TMK or 80gr ELD.

Any leads or recommendations on a 18-20" 1/7" twist barrel?

I'd just load up some 55gr-60gr-ish sp's and go kill stuff

 

[Nutkin13]

Ended up going with Shaw barrels, 223AI, remington sporter contour, 1/7 twist, 18in, threaded 1/2x28 for $300.

 

[Steve300xcw]

how big is the mag box on a model seven?

 

[Nutkin13]

how big is the mag box on a model seven?

Mine measures about 2.350" with calipers.

My line of thinking was $125 to thread my existing barrel OR $400 installed for the new one. $275 to play with something new.... why not

 

[DadWil]

Ended up going with Shaw barrels, 223AI, remington sporter contour, 1/7 twist, 18in, threaded 1/2x28 for $300.

I've bought 2 barrels from Shaw a regular 223 & a 223Wylde.. both 26" 1/8 twist Magnum contour. Both more accurate than the nut behind the trigger. Did my own blueing with a Chem blue kit I had.
Factory 55gr loads spit out at 3500fps. My 75gr home rolleds I try to get close to 2882fps