.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[ztc92]

For those wondering, the AAC 77g OTM shot pretty well in my tikka. About 1.5MOA 10 shot groups. Also happy to report all 1000 rounds are the same lot. Overall, I am quite pleased given the price.

 

[andrew_hood27]

Hey all, I’m VERY late to the party here but between this thread and the match bullet thread I’ve learned a ton. I’m an “adult onset” hunter and have hunted the last three years with a 7mm Rem Mag because that’s what all my buddies told me I needed and I didn’t know any better.

One question I’ve got (I’ve made it through about 60pgs so sorry if the answer is in here already) is this… the TMK is touted as being great because it expands immediately, and one of the downside of the Berger is that it has a slightly longer neck length before expanding. I would think the slightly longer neck length would be a positive, since it would minimize meat damage through a shoulder but still cause sufficient damage to the vitals. What am I missing? Thanks in advance!

 

[sierracharlie338]

Hey all, I’m VERY late to the party here but between this thread and the match bullet thread I’ve learned a ton. I’m an “adult onset” hunter and have hunted the last three years with a 7mm Rem Mag because that’s what all my buddies told me I needed and I didn’t know any better.

One question I’ve got (I’ve made it through about 60pgs so sorry if the answer is in here already) is this… the TMK is touted as being great because it expands immediately, and one of the downside of the Berger is that it has a slightly longer neck length before expanding. I would think the slightly longer neck length would be a positive, since it would minimize meat damage through a shoulder but still cause sufficient damage to the vitals. What am I missing? Thanks in advance!

The neck length can be too long for smaller thin game like deer is what seems to worry people about bergers but my experience with them has been great. I also have not shot animals at the distances others here have because we just don’t normally have that available to us here in Texas with all the private land unless you intentionally set your shots up that way.

The TMK performance seems to be the most desirable amongst people on this forum between them and the Bergers. To each their own and fwiw I shoot both

 

[kswaterfowl]

Here is one of the 77 gr tmks I recovered out of a big whitetail. The shot was 205 yds straight on through the chest. The bullet was recovered in the hind quarter.

 

[ElPollo]

Hey all, I’m VERY late to the party here but between this thread and the match bullet thread I’ve learned a ton. I’m an “adult onset” hunter and have hunted the last three years with a 7mm Rem Mag because that’s what all my buddies told me I needed and I didn’t know any better.

One question I’ve got (I’ve made it through about 60pgs so sorry if the answer is in here already) is this… the TMK is touted as being great because it expands immediately, and one of the downside of the Berger is that it has a slightly longer neck length before expanding. I would think the slightly longer neck length would be a positive, since it would minimize meat damage through a shoulder but still cause sufficient damage to the vitals. What am I missing? Thanks in advance!

None of these bullets are necessarily a bad choice. It’s all about what you want to prioritize.

The TMK tends to give you a football shaped wound channel while the Berger, Scenar and other tumble and fragment type bullets provide a wound channel that is more trumpet shaped in most cases. In my own personal experience with the latter, I’ve seen some that pencil or tumble through the onside lung and heart area on deer, only to fragment in the offside lung. I felt like the result was a longer post-shot run and more tracking. That said, using Bergers and Scenars isn’t a bad choice, just different.

On the issue of meat loss with the TMKs, my answer to that is just don’t shoot shoulders. I personally like to eat them and find it wasteful. I do agree that TMKs, ELDMs and ELDXs will damage more meat. It’s just a balance of how much tracking you want to do. If you are hunting in small parcels and having a deer run across a property boundary means it’s in your neighbor’s freezer, the TMK is your hedgehog. If you’re out on the wide open prairie and public land where you can watch your dog run away from you for three days, a Berger or a Barnes may work fine and result a little more meat in the freezer.

Finally, if longer distances and or shorter barrels are your bag, the TMK will likely perform better at lower velocities than a Berger or Scenar. Both of those seem to need about 2000 fps at impact to perform well. Most monos like Barnes need about 2100-2200 fps, ELDMs and ELDXs need about 1800 fps, TMKs seem like they can do pretty well down to 1600-1700 fps.

 

[andrew_hood27]

None of these bullets are necessarily a bad choice. It’s all about what you want to prioritize.

The TMK tends to give you a football shaped wound channel while the Berger, Scenar and other tumble and fragment type bullets provide a wound channel that is more trumpet shaped in most cases. In my own personal experience with the latter, I’ve seen some that pencil or tumble through the onside lung and heart area on deer, only to fragment in the offside lung. I felt like the result was a longer post-shot run and more tracking. That said, using Bergers and Scenars isn’t a bad choice, just different.

On the issue of meat loss with the TMKs, my answer to that is just don’t shoot shoulders. I personally like to eat them and find it wasteful. I do agree that TMKs, ELDMs and ELDXs will damage more meat. It’s just a balance of how much tracking you want to do. If you are hunting in small parcels and having a deer run across a property boundary means it’s in your neighbor’s freezer, the TMK is your hedgehog. If you’re out on the wide open prairie and public land where you can watch your dog run away from you for three days, a Berger or a Barnes may work fine and result a little more meat in the freezer.

Finally, if longer distances and or shorter barrels are your bag, the TMK will likely perform better at lower velocities than a Berger or Scenar. Both of those seem to need about 2000 fps at impact to perform well. Most monos like Barnes need about 2100-2200 fps, ELDMs and ELDXs need about 1800 fps, TMKs seem like they can do pretty well down to 1600-1700 fps.

This is super helpful, thank you!

 

[Deeremech]

Guys, long time lurker, recently joined.
Grew up hunting whitetail deer in the south with a .243 that was probably loaded with 95 grain ballistic tips. Stacked a few does with it every year, no rodeos. Younger brother got old enough to hunt, and in my teen years I graduated to a "big boy" gun to shoot does at 150 yards max. Quality 7mm Rem Mag loaded with 150 gr Core Lokts. Hunting success immediately went down by a large margin. I never equated the 2 as being connected.
Fast forward 20+ years, I'm in a different area of the county, and get a chance to shoot some exotics on a ranch in South Texas. Everyone tells me 300 WM minimum. I shoot a Nilgai cow at 200 yards, center punch both lungs wtih a 180 or so grain Barnes mono, she runs half a mile and jumps the fence. Must not be enough gun, right? Upgrade to a 338 Win Mag (that's what the guide had) with about a 250 gr bullet. Similar failure the following year.

Fast forward to fall of 2023, and I stumbled across this post. I purchased a Ruger American Ranch, put a FFP MIL / MIL scope on it, and added a decent suppressor. I loaded it with 73 gr ELDM to start, and shortly after found 500 BH 77 TMK somewhere. I also purchased a large amount of AAC BTHP and 75 grain sabers and shot nearly 1000 rounds practicing positional shooting with Shoot2Hunt bags over the winter. I established a good 30 round zero @ 100 yards, loaded the profile in the Revic binoculars (Thanks Form for the reviews and info on those.) For the 2024 season, I killed 1 nilgai cow dead with the ELDM (bang flop), and stacked 11 more critters in 3 stats with the TMK's. Kills have ranged from 30 yards to nearly 400. I am 12 animals for 12 bullets with this combination.

Distances after the shot have included: 5 bang flops, 5 runners @ 30 yards, and 2 almost to 80 (short range shots, literally blew chunks of lungs out the far side after missing all the ribs / shoulder).

Like the 1st post said, bullets matter, not headstamps.
Follow the data guys. It can't lie.

 

[HighUintas]

How many rounds does it generally take to break in a Tikka factory 223 barrel?

I'm going to test a couple options of 556 77gr but only have 20 rounds through it. I'd like to have the barrel sped up and carboned up before trying the 556 just in case they end up being a little too hot by the time the barrel is broke in. I was thinking I might pump some cheap 556 fmj through it with short range positional practice first.

Or does it not seem to matter with 223?

 

[Bowfinn]

How many rounds does it generally take to break in a Tikka factory 223 barrel?

I'm going to test a couple options of 556 77gr but only have 20 rounds through it. I'd like to have the barrel sped up and carboned up before trying the 556 just in case they end up being a little too hot by the time the barrel is broke in. I was thinking I might pump some cheap 556 fmj through it with short range positional practice first.

Or does it not seem to matter with 223?

The Impact of Losing Zero – Causes and Mitigation Strategies

Hi everyone, This forum is full of great information about the importance of maintaining zero on a rifle scope and how critical it is for accuracy, especially as ranges extend. I wanted to dive deeper into the potential sources of losing zero and strategies for addressing it. Recently, I’ve...

rokslide.com

 

[HighUintas]

The Impact of Losing Zero – Causes and Mitigation Strategies

Hi everyone, This forum is full of great information about the importance of maintaining zero on a rifle scope and how critical it is for accuracy, especially as ranges extend. I wanted to dive deeper into the potential sources of losing zero and strategies for addressing it. Recently, I’ve...

rokslide.com

Thanks, I haven't seen that thread.

I think the zero change likely coincides with an internal ballistics pressure change, so I'll try to pump some rounds through it before evaluating ammo I may large amounts of.

 

[swavescatter]

Any Oryx in here yet?

Black Hills TMKs getting it done.

 

[KyleR1985]

Here is one of the 77 gr tmks I recovered out of a big whitetail. The shot was 205 yds straight on through the chest. The bullet was recovered in the hind quarter.

Impact velocity?

 

[kswaterfowl]

Impact velocity?

Right around 2280

 

[McD18]

Two pigs a few weeks ago in TX. Shot the sow quartering away at 100 yds, behind the right shoulder, bullet stopped just forward of the left shoulder. It was still dark, hit her farther back than I intended. She ran about 20 yds. Little copper boar came back out when the sun came up and I hit him behind the ear and he dropped. Hornady ELD-M again.

This is my favorite rifle now

 

[ElPollo]

Any Oryx in here yet?

Black Hills TMKs getting it done.

Details, please. This is another one of those mythical species that “requires” a 300 mag.

 

[sierracharlie338]

Two pigs a few weeks ago in TX. Shot the sow quartering away at 100 yds, behind the right shoulder, bullet stopped just forward of the left shoulder. It was still dark, hit her farther back than I intended. She ran about 20 yds. Little copper boar came back out when the sun came up and I hit him behind the ear and he dropped. Hornady ELD-M again.

This is my favorite rifle now

View attachment 832529

What scope you running?

 

[McD18]

What scope you running?

NXS 2.5-10x42 MIL-R

 

[swavescatter]

Details, please. This is another one of those mythical species that “requires” a 300 mag.

Unfortunately this was a yearling and also my son made a neck shot so no definitive datapoint here. I was hoping he could put one through the front leg of a big bull, but we took the shot that was presented...

I did purchase a private land outfitted hunt from Ted Turner's place, and that guide recommended using 6.5 Creedmoor's. Pretty much all he guides year round and it's what he sees best success with apparently. He strongly did not want to let my son use his 223 last year so we got a public land tag this year.

We'll try again.

 

[Boltgun]

Any Oryx in here yet?

Black Hills TMKs getting it done.

Impossible. Thats an African animal, and nothing less than .375H&H can put them down.

 

[ElPollo]

Unfortunately this was a yearling and also my son made a neck shot so no definitive datapoint here. I was hoping he could put one through the front leg of a big bull, but we took the shot that was presented...

I did purchase a private land outfitted hunt from Ted Turner's place, and that guide recommended using 6.5 Creedmoor's. Pretty much all he guides year round and it's what he sees best success with apparently. He strongly did not want to let my son use his 223 last year so we got a public land tag this year.

We'll try again.

Thanks for the info. Totally understand. With oryx you have to take the shot that is available, because you may not get another one. Glad your son was able to kill one. Looks like a good eater too. Interesting about the 6.5 recommendation from the guide.