.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

JohnDough · Saturday at 8:50 PM

SamsonMan22 said:
Gotcha, I was loading my own of course so that helped.

I typically find a bullet the gun likes, then buy a few thousand rounds of the same lot #. I cannot load stuff as hot as big manufacturing can with specialty blends of temp sensitive powders. For example, my 70gr tsx stuff turns 2550 from an 11.5.

77TMK · Saturday at 8:52 PM

JohnDough said:
What are you considering to be "narrow" wound channel, and what is "lower velocity"? Everyone defines these differently. Just as you imply your chf barrel outshoots many peoples custom Kreiger heavy setups.

Monos give a narrow tract compared to the basketball of liquefaction from a TMK or ELDM. In 223 they do that and pass through. I know the 77 TMK fragments wonderfully at 1700 from my own testing, but rarely passes through in the now 20+ deer I’ve shot with it. The 70 TSX is getting to give ice pick behavior under 2000. From my 14.5” I’ll trust to 400 yards for reliable expansion.

If someone’s heavy Kreiger isn’t doing better than 3/4” ten shots with 77 SMK then something is wrong. Even your barrels should be doing better than they are, but you may have too many variables at play.

Worst case you have a shot out or flawed barrel, and that’s a $300 fix so no big deal. As said before lots of “duty” type barrels are extremely picky. I got very lucky with this Geissele barrel that isn’t far behind my Douglas in a MK12 Mod1 clone build.

Schmo · Saturday at 9:37 PM

JohnDough said:
Noone I trust loads the 73 eldm. It's all wierd burn rate powders or low pressure etc from Hornady.

There is nothing weird about powders for the 73 ELD-M. Same powders as you’d use for the 77 TMK. Probably same charge weights too. If someone is loading the 77 TMK for you, buy them a box of 100 73 ELD-M and have them load it like the TMK. Or, you can buy Hornady Match 223 ammo and it’s already loaded with the 73 to AR mag length.

Formidilosus · Saturday at 9:42 PM

Schmo said:
There is nothing weird about powders for the 73 ELD-M. Same powders as you’d use for the 77 TMK. Probably same charge weights too. If someone is loading the 77 TMK for you, buy them a box of 100 73 ELD-M and have them load it like the TMK. Or, you can buy Hornady Match 223 ammo and it’s already loaded with the 73 to AR mag length.

He’s talking about factory Hornady 73gr. Hornady often enough does have inconsistencies in their loads due to swapping powders- in any case it isn’t loaded to 5.56mm pressure which is what he wants .

Schmo · Saturday at 9:44 PM

Formidilosus said:
He’s talking about factory Hornady 73gr. Hornady often enough does have inconsistencies in their loads due to swapping powders- in any case it isn’t loaded to 5.56mm pressure which is what he wants .

Ope, my bad. I thought he was meaning load data. And yes, I can agree about powder variations in their loaded ammo.

JohnDough · Saturday at 9:47 PM

Schmo said:
There is nothing weird about powders for the 73 ELD-M. Same powders as you’d use for the 77 TMK. Probably same charge weights too. If someone is loading the 77 TMK for you, buy them a box of 100 73 ELD-M and have them load it like the TMK. Or, you can buy Hornady Match 223 ammo and it’s already loaded with the 73 to AR mag length.

Hornady Superformance uses burn rates that are unique and not in a good way for gas guns. I can't find any other 5.56 loadings for it.

SouthPaw · Saturday at 9:48 PM

23.5g 8208XBR is a wonderful load for the 73eldm. Multiple Tikka .223s absolutely love this load.

77TMK · Saturday at 9:49 PM

Do you need a 556 loading of it? The 223 Rem pressure loads are great.

JohnDough · Saturday at 10:51 PM

77TMK said:
Do you need a 556 loading of it? The 223 Rem pressure loads are great.

Velocity is always good. I shoot 11.5s, so more the merrier. 70gr tsx does well so far though so I'll probably stick with.

JohnDough · Saturday at 11:00 PM

77TMK said:
Monos give a narrow tract compared to the basketball of liquefaction from a TMK or ELDM. In 223 they do that and pass through. I know the 77 TMK fragments wonderfully at 1700 from my own testing, but rarely passes through in the now 20+ deer I’ve shot with it. The 70 TSX is getting to give ice pick behavior under 2000. From my 14.5” I’ll trust to 400 yards for reliable expansion.

If someone’s heavy Kreiger isn’t doing better than 3/4” ten shots with 77 SMK then something is wrong. Even your barrels should be doing better than they are, but you may have too many variables at play.

Worst case you have a shot out or flawed barrel, and that’s a $300 fix so no big deal. As said before lots of “duty” type barrels are extremely picky. I got very lucky with this Geissele barrel that isn’t far behind my Douglas in a MK12 Mod1 clone build.
View attachment 813196

Dunno man.

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Not my stick, but it proves the point. Most full on custom cut rifled ARs are @1moa guns with mk262 and similar. Chrome lined chf guns typically run around 1.35-1.75.

Yeah, I try to keep the tsx at 2k and above too.

justinspicher · Sunday at 5:51 AM

Are you hunting with your 11.5s or any of your ARs?

BrowningGuy88 · Sunday at 5:52 AM

FredH said:
I have used the regular 55 gr. SP's from both Winchester and Remington to kill deer in the past. I took only mid to low behind the shoulder shots at ranges less than 200 yards. Worked just fine. Had bullets both exit and be found under the far side hide. Some deer dropped and some ran a ways. All died.

This has been my experience as well. Myself and my FIL have killed a lot of hogs and deer with the 223 primarily shooting Hornady 55 grain soft points. The deer usually make a 50-80 yard dash and die. Only issue I personally have is there is rarely a blood trail. I get that isn’t a primary concern of many here, but for me, hunting pine plantation and CRP thickets, it is important.

That said a 55 grain 223 is just as effective as a 150 grain 30-06 when you hit a CNS shot.

JohnDough · Sunday at 5:53 AM

justinspicher said:
Are you hunting with your 11.5s or any of your ARs?

Yes, the 11.5. Fills the freezer every year.

justinspicher · Sunday at 5:56 AM

JohnDough said:
Yes, the 11.5. Fills the freezer every year.

That’s pretty rad.

Pharmseller · Sunday at 5:55 PM

SouthPaw said:
23.5g 8208XBR is a wonderful load for the 73eldm. Multiple Tikka .223s absolutely love this load.

Tough to find around here.

P

SouthPaw · Sunday at 6:59 PM

Pharmseller said:
Tough to find around here.

P

Yessir. But when you do, jugs my friend.

77TMK · Sunday at 7:09 PM

SouthPaw said:
Yessir. But when you do, jugs my friend.

Even my bot scraper for inventory shows most places haven't had it for a year, and a couple had it two months ago.

A real shame, since it's an incredible powder for 223. Cost drives me to stack on Ramshot TAC, and besides a little more temp sensitivity than I am used to, it's a great 52-77 gr powder.

Sadler · Sunday at 8:20 PM

77TMK said:
Even my bot scraper for inventory shows most places haven't had it for a year, and a couple had it two months ago.

A real shame, since it's an incredible powder for 223. Cost drives me to stack on Ramshot TAC, and besides a little more temp sensitivity than I am used to, it's a great 52-77 gr powder.

N540 is another good one I found. I was pushing the 77s out of a 16” 223 2800FPS with a stout load of that stuff a couple years ago. Then I got a new barrel and it absolutely hates it

SouthPaw · Sunday at 8:25 PM

77TMK said:
Even my bot scraper for inventory shows most places haven't had it for a year, and a couple had it two months ago.

A real shame, since it's an incredible powder for 223. Cost drives me to stack on Ramshot TAC, and besides a little more temp sensitivity than I am used to, it's a great 52-77 gr powder.

Buy it when available publicly, yes. But put some effort into trading, bring it up when talking to folks at matches, range, LGS, shows, etc. I've gotten most of mine for cheaper than retail privately just through small talk.

Tahr · Sunday at 8:34 PM

More on the 62 grn Maker TRex. 3,100 MV
2 deer. No blood trail at all from either of them. Doe made it 10 yards, stag about 50 yards.

145 yards neck-ish shot quartering towards me. Small Fallow deer doe (white tail size).

Doe