.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[zdc1775]

Your take is similar to mine, but the MK318 0 SOST seems to have more "confetti" to it, due to the lead core. It also seemed more destructive on entrance and exit on the deer I show (both broadside). I'd say it's probably more similar to MK318 MOD 1 SOST.

Ultimately, I found the 70gr TSX more to my liking. When I hit deer with it, it blows blood out of the animal at the impact site. The Dual Performance so far has not. Very minimal blood trail even with a low shot on the chest through the very heart. MK318 MOD 0 was pretty nasty in comparison.

All 3 get the job done, but I prefer the 70gr TSX.

I haven't tried the 70gr TSX but it sounds like I should since the 62 TTSX has been my go to 223 bullet for several years.

And like I said I never used Mk318 MOD 1 personally, I was just basing that hypotheses on what I had heard about their performance in Afghanistan from some of my friends who were still on active duty when the Corps replaced the MOD 0 that I had experience with. Though it's not like we were actually doing any autopsies over there either.

 

[bcmntgoathunter.]

I'd prob stick with the 62 i have definitely found with monos speed is king.... and the more the better. But since hammer bullets are so widely available even here in canada I can get them ill take them any day of the week over barns..... with that said I shoot berger as my number 1 choice if the rifle won't shoot them i shoot eldm or eldx if it dosnt shoot those maybe a tipped matchking or hammer if it still dosnt shoot the rifle gets sold so fast you can feel the wind from it passing by. I won't touch nosler with a 10000000 foot pole they have abandoned their customer bace that made them the reloader their components are absurdly over priced. When they admitted to me over the phone they'd rather sell factory ammo cause they make more money and the hand.load gets scraps they became dead to me.

 

[NWBLKTAIL]

Project for my 5 year old. We bought a T3X Hunter that was already cut to 16” and threaded. Chopped 3” off the stock, taped it off, then sprayed it down with Rust-Oleum’s textured paint. Then let my little guy pick out his colors and have some fun. He painted the whole thing by himself, with a touch of guidance. Now we just need to glue on a flip flop butt pad and put a @Salmon River Solutions arca/pic rail. Tested fired it before doing the work and it shot 12 rounds of ADI 69 smk’s into 1.3. View attachment 812446View attachment 812447

this was a great idea, good job dad. I see this same thing happening in my future.

 

[david2duck]

this was a great idea, good job dad. I see this same thing happening in my future.

Thanks. He was so pumped Christmas morning when he found the rifle. At first he thought my wife bought it for me. When we told him it was his he ran up and gave me the biggest hug. After painting it today he said “dad I love it.” Anytime we go shooting he’s always asking to shoot my .223 so I “had” to get another.

 

[sierracharlie338]

Thanks. He was so pumped Christmas morning when he found the rifle. At first he thought my wife bought it for me. When we told him it was his he ran up and gave me the biggest hug. After painting it today he said “dad I love it.” Anytime we go shooting he’s always asking to shoot my .223 so I “had” to get another.

That’s awesome

 

[NWBLKTAIL]

Thanks. He was so pumped Christmas morning when he found the rifle. At first he thought my wife bought it for me. When we told him it was his he ran up and gave me the biggest hug. After painting it today he said “dad I love it.” Anytime we go shooting he’s always asking to shoot my .223 so I “had” to get another.

thats what its all about, I make mine apart of it any chance I can and the painting the stock and letting them do it was a homerun idea. My 5 year old would be ecstatic and my 3yo.

 

[JohnDough]

I haven't tried the 70gr TSX but it sounds like I should since the 62 TTSX has been my go to 223 bullet for several years.

And like I said I never used Mk318 MOD 1 personally, I was just basing that hypotheses on what I had heard about their performance in Afghanistan from some of my friends who were still on active duty when the Corps replaced the MOD 0 that I had experience with. Though it's not like we were actually doing any autopsies over there either.

The 70gr TSX is special. A lot of R&D went into that bullet compared to the other weights in this caliber, and it got a ton of fine-tuning. Expansion threshold is about 100fps lower than the other TSX weights in this caliber, and it VIOLENTLY initiates expansion (you can see this in the photo. This was a small deer and a rib was not hit, and you can clearly see the bullet was already open when it went through the thin rib meat and into the body cavity). An example of this is a deer I shot at about 75m. Impact velocity was 2350fps or so. It also carries momentum very well through the target. Impact is left to right in photo. Lung tissue also pictured. There is just a little extra magic in these 70gr TSX.

 

[JohnDough]

I'd prob stick with the 62 i have definitely found with monos speed is king.... and the more the better. But since hammer bullets are so widely available even here in canada I can get them ill take them any day of the week over barns..... with that said I shoot berger as my number 1 choice if the rifle won't shoot them i shoot eldm or eldx if it dosnt shoot those maybe a tipped matchking or hammer if it still dosnt shoot the rifle gets sold so fast you can feel the wind from it passing by. I won't touch nosler with a 10000000 foot pole they have abandoned their customer bace that made them the reloader their components are absurdly over priced. When they admitted to me over the phone they'd rather sell factory ammo cause they make more money and the hand.load gets scraps they became dead to me.

I've never seen a rifle that would shoot 77TMK in person. Tried it through every rifle I own, and it shoots about like a bad lot of M193. 2.5-3.5moa. These are guns that will sling X135 and MK262 into 1.5-1.8moa groups.

*10 shot groups, 100 yards.

 

[Castle Rock]

That is pretty unusual, they are a very tractable bullet

 

[TxxAgg]

Shot a big boy this morning with the 77 tmk. Had my daughter with me so it was extra fun.

Shot was 202 yds. He ran maybe 50 yds. No exit.

 

[sierracharlie338]

Big ole stanker I bet!

 

[Thegman]

The 70gr TSX is special. A lot of R&D went into that bullet compared to the other weights in this caliber, and it got a ton of fine-tuning. Expansion threshold is about 100fps lower than the other TSX weights in this caliber, and it VIOLENTLY initiates expansion (you can see this in the photo. This was a small deer and a rib was not hit, and you can clearly see the bullet was already open when it went through the thin rib meat and into the body cavity). An example of this is a deer I shot at about 75m. Impact velocity was 2350fps or so. It also carries momentum very well through the target. Impact is left to right in photo. Lung tissue also pictured. There is just a little extra magic in these 70gr TSX.
View attachment 812663
View attachment 812664

Do you know what their lower velocity expansion numbers are?

 

[Gstew1930]

Another big boy this morning. Made it through that "armor" shoulder everyone loves to talk about . 77 TMK

 

[sierracharlie338]

Do you know what their lower velocity expansion numbers are?

According to Barnes from third hand information Barnes says that 1800 is the absolute minimum for the 70tsx (other models of 223 bullets are a bit higher minimum) but recommends 100-200fps above that for the most reliable expansion and wound channels.

 

[JohnDough]

Do you know what their lower velocity expansion numbers are?

Officially, 1800fps. I like to keep them at 2000fps+ though. Very robust, at that.

 

[JohnDough]

That is pretty unusual, they are a very tractable bullet

People keep telling me this, and I keep buying a new box of Black Hills 77TMK every year or two and trying it. Same story over and over.

 

[justinspicher]

People keep telling me this, and I keep buying a new box of Black Hills 77TMK every year or two and trying it. Same story over and over.

What other ammo have you shot that performs better?

 

[JohnDough]

What other ammo have you shot that performs better?

The only less accurate ammunition has been reject lots of trophy bonded 62gr 5.56, and M855A1. Literally everything else I have tested is superior or equal (MK318 was equal).

Better:

Wolf 62gr FMJ (shockingly good around 2moa)
M193 (all flavors tested) (low 2 moas)
M855 (all flavors tested, IMI, Winchester, Federal, etc) Low 2 moas)
50gr TSX Black Hills (sub 2 moa)
70gr TSX(sub 2 moa)
62gr TSX Black Hills(sub 2 moa)
55,62,75gr Gold Dot(sub 2 moa, although the 75gr flavor actually launched a few 1.1moa)
70gr GMX(sub 2 moa)


...and lots of others over the years through that same gun. I have not tested ALL those through every gun I shot 77TMK Black Hills through though, but it was consistent. 2.5-3moa. All 10 shot groups. Even fired test groups on multiple outings where I was printing sub 2moa groups with other ammo all day long. Cleaned the barrel, all that nonsense. It just doesn't shoot. I have tried it in FN, KAC, and Daniel Defense CHF barreled carbines. All of them shoot sub 2 moa with the 70gr TSX load of my choice, boringly, day in and day out.

At 3moa, I'm off target at 300 yards anyway, so who cares how it performs "at distance".

That 70gr TSX running 1.75moa is going to stand a lot better chance of anchoring something at 300.

 

[sierracharlie338]

The only less accurate ammunition has been reject lots of trophy bonded 62gr 5.56, and M855A1. Literally everything else I have tested is superior or equal (MK318 was equal).

What are the gun specs? Not sure if you posted it already.

 

[JohnDough]

What are the gun specs? Not sure if you posted it already.

One was a 16.1" DDM4 CHF gov with NXS 1-4
One was a Hodge Defense MOD 2 14.5" pinned CHF FN barrel with NX8
One was a KAC 11.5" CHF KAC barrel with NX8

All were 1/7 twist CHF Chrome lined.