.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[justinspicher]

One was a 16.1" DDM4 CHF gov with NXS 1-4
One was a Hodge Defense MOD 2 14.5" pinned CHF FN barrel with NX8
One was a KAC 11.5" CHF KAC barrel with NX8

All were 1/7 twist CHF Chrome lined.

The results you have experienced aren’t all that surprising to me with these platforms.

 

[sierracharlie338]

One was a 16.1" DDM4 CHF gov with NXS 1-4
One was a Hodge Defense MOD 2 14.5" pinned CHF FN barrel with NX8
One was a KAC 11.5" CHF KAC barrel with NX8

All were 1/7 twist CHF Chrome lined.

That’s crazy my Tikka and LWRC shoot the factory BH 77s at least sub 1.5inch for 10 shots. But I have a shot a few other loads (fusion msr being one) that shoot better

 

[JohnDough]

The results you have experienced aren’t all that surprising to me with these platforms.

Why? Does 77 TMK shoot like trash out of CHF barrels or something?

 

[JohnDough]

That’s crazy my Tikka and LWRC shoot the factory BH 77s at least sub 1.5inch for 10 shots. But I have a shot a few other loads (fusion msr being one) that shoot better

Yes, MK262 is about a 1.5-1.8moa round for 10 shots any day of the week through my rifles. 70gr TSX is 1.6-1.9.

 

[justinspicher]

Not at all, those are just not precision AR platforms. (In my experience)

 

[JohnDough]

Not at all, those are just not precision AR platforms. (In my experience)

Precise enough for my needs. Except with 77tmk.

 

[77TMK]

Try an actual good barrel. KAC doesn’t make precision barrels, Hodge is literally rebagged FN barrels that are mediocre in precision, and DD regular barrels are not known for precision either.


Dang it also looks like this some Indian, not the arrow stuff with how you shoot off a bench.

 

[JohnDough]

Try an actual good barrel. KAC doesn’t make precision barrels, Hodge is literally rebagged FN barrels that are mediocre in precision, and DD regular barrels are not known for precision either.

Let me understand correctly...

-All my guns will shoot 1.8moa or better with multiple loading/ rounds. 10 shot groups. Any day of the week.

-77TMK black hills shoots 2.5-3+. Multiple lots. All of my rifles.

-My barrels must be the problem.

...and now you're bagging on how I achieve those sub 1.5moa groups with ammo the guns really love?

Cmon...

 

[Nomosendero]

If it was how he shoots off the bench it would not show up with just 1 load in all three rifles while getting better groups with all three rifles with other loads. I believe we can scrap that idea!
It is odd that these 3 rifles don't like the Black Hills load but odd things happen!
Have you tried the 77TMK in a different load?

 

[77TMK]

1.8 moa at its best is not a good barrel. My Geissele URGI upper with a Geissele barrel shoots 77 SMK into 3/4” and 77 TMK to 1” repeatedly, and that is a pretty normal CHF barrel.


You’re not using a rear bag and your finger is hopping off the trigger as you fire. ARs require a lot more follow through to shoot precisely, and you’re shooting it like it’s a bolt gun.

 

[JohnDough]

If it was how he shoots off the bench it would not show up with just 1 load in all three rifles while getting better groups with all three rifles with other loads. I believe we can scrap that idea!
It is odd that these 3 rifles don't like the Black Hills load but odd things happen!
Have you tried the 77TMK in a different load?

No, I'm a black hills fan. Their mk262 shoots fine for me, though.

Also, I've used varying techniques from the bench. That rifle liked that technique. My KAC likes to have the rail muscled down a bit. Each gun has a personality, but NONE liked that 77 tmk in any fashion.

 

[JohnDough]

1.8 moa at its best is not a good barrel. My Geissele URGI upper with a Geissele barrel shoots 77 SMK into 3/4” and 77 TMK to 1” repeatedly, and that is a pretty normal CHF barrel.

For multiple 10 shot groups?

 

[justinspicher]

I’d quit trying to make the 77tmks work and just focus on what does.

 

[77TMK]

Yes. Five shot groups are often tighter. I got lucky with this barrel. My Douglas mk12 barrel is only a little better.


Give the 73 ELDM a try. I personally hate the 70 TSX because it just makes a narrow wound channel and their expansion thresholds are misleading as monos barely expand at lower velocities.

 

[JohnDough]

Yes. Five shot groups are often tighter. I got lucky with this barrel. My Douglas mk12 barrel is only a little better.


Give the 73 ELDM a try. I personally hate the 70 TSX because it just makes a narrow wound channel and their expansion thresholds are misleading as monos barely expand at lower velocities.

What are you considering to be "narrow" wound channel, and what is "lower velocity"? Everyone defines these differently. Just as you imply your chf barrel outshoots many peoples custom Kreiger heavy setups.

 

[SamsonMan22]

Let me understand correctly...

-All my guns will shoot 1.8moa or better with multiple loading/ rounds. 10 shot groups. Any day of the week.

-77TMK black hills shoots 2.5-3+. Multiple lots. All of my rifles.

-My barrels must be the problem.

...and now you're bagging on how I achieve those sub 1.5moa groups with ammo the guns really love?

Cmon...

If you are looking to shoot a tipped match bullet try the 73eldm. I had a very accurate 1:7 223 barrel in a bolt gun that hated 77tmks the best I could do with them was 1.8moa and that was a single cherry picked group on average they were in the 2.4 range. That same barrel would shoot 73 and 75 eldms exceptionally well along with Hornady 75bthp and the 77smk. For whatever reason the 77tmk just wouldn’t shoot in it no matter what I tried. The 73eldm was consistently sub Moa for 10 rounds in that barrel.

 

[JohnDough]

If you are looking to shoot a tipped match bullet try the 73eldm. I had a very accurate 1:7 223 barrel in a bolt gun that hated 77tmks the best I could do with them was 1.8moa and that was a single cherry picked group on average they were in the 2.4 range. That same barrel would shoot 73 and 75 eldms exceptionally well along with Hornady 75bthp and the 77smk. For whatever reason the 77tmk just wouldn’t shoot in it no matter what I tried. The 73eldm was consistently sub Moa for 10 rounds in that barrel.

Noone I trust loads the 73 eldm. It's all wierd burn rate powders or low pressure etc from Hornady.

 

[Formidilosus]

77gr TMK’s can be finicky in AR’s, especially “duty” barrels. If the gun doesn’t like them, it doesn’t like them.

But, it isn’t all that common.

 

[SamsonMan22]

Noone I trust loads the 73 eldm. It's all wierd burn rate powders or low pressure etc from Hornady.

Gotcha, I was loading my own of course so that helped.

 

[JohnDough]

77gr TMK’s can be finicky in AR’s, especially “duty” barrels. If the gun doesn’t like them, it doesn’t like them.

But, it isn’t all that common.

Yeah, DD, FN, and KAC all use different forges and chrome liners, unique to them. I figured ONE of them would at least shoot it as well as m193.