.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[mtnbound]

You can continue being FOS if you want. You seem unable to separate wound characteristics from KE or that bullet construction has a great deal to do with the application of KE. You must suffer from some sort of mental block, possibly brainwashing. A .357 180 gr. Hornady XTP at 1200 fps, designed to expand at that velocity and less is a very good deer killer. I never said velocity has no bearing. Without it KE cannot be calculated.

As mentioned KE is the potential amount of energy that can be transferred to the target.

Bullet deformation through tissue is how the KE is being transferred to the target.

Any bullet that completely penetrates through the target does not transfer all of its potential KE. Any bullet that does not exit the target transfers all of its potential KE.

A bullets level of deformation is the highest indicator of KE transference.

Bullet design and being above the designed minimum expansion velocity at impact will maximize the amount of KE transferred to the target.

Are the above statements correct or incorrect?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FredH]

It might mean something, but it tells us nothing about what the bullet is going to do.

Once you know bullet construction, weight, and impact velocity, what does the KE number add to your knowledge of what it will do?

The larger the KE number the work the projectile can do is also larger. I can unequivically say a 162 grain ELDX impacting at 2700 fps will do more to any media than the same variety of bullet bullet weighing half as much.

 

[FredH]

As mentioned KE is the potential amount of energy that can be transferred to the target.

Bullet deformation through tissue is how the KE is being transferred to the target.

Any bullet that completely penetrates through the target does not transfer all of its potential KE. Any bullet that does not exit the target transfers all of its potential KE.

A bullets level of deformation is the highest indicator of KE transference.

Bullet design and being above the designed minimum expansion velocity at impact will maximize the amount of KE transferred to the target.

Are the above statements correct or incorrect?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds good to me. I might question "A bullets level of deformation is the highest indicator of KE transference." by saying that a mono solid might not have much deformation within reasonable boundaries, falling back on bullet design. I would also say I believe that media damage is a solid indicator of KE tranference.

 

[FredH]

If he were able to answer that, he’d have done so one of the many other times he’s been asked. Stop feeding the troll and let’s get this thread back on track!

Explained it several times.

 

[Drenalin]

Explained it several times.

You’ve talked around it in a condescending way without addressing it specifically, in this thread. However, you did post this in another thread:

Well it's true that energy can't tell you what shape or form a wound channel will make but is it possible it could measure wound volume roughly.

The first half of the quoted statement would be considered a direct response to the question repeatedly posed to you in this thread. Perhaps you were too busy being impressed with yourself to understand that was the question being asked.

 

[KHntr]

The larger the KE number the work the projectile can do is also larger. I can unequivically say a 162 grain ELDX impacting at 2700 fps will do more to any media than the same variety of bullet bullet weighing half as much.

How can you unequivocally say that a 162 ELD x at 2700 will do more damage than one half the weight? That is a serious question, I am absolutely curious. Have you shot two examples side by side? Or is this just something you “know”?

I had this typed out earlier but then changed my mind.

If you drive a 3” nail into a stud with a 20 oz framing hammer with one blow, and it impacted with 700fps ( no clue on what the speed would be, its just for comparison sake) and then pounded the next nail into the same stud with a 5lb sledge impacting at the same 700fps, which has more kinetic energy? Which has done more work? Which has a different result? Is there a difference?

If you substituted an egg for the nails, which would be more smashed?
At some point the medium takes all the energy applied and the same result occurs, simply due to the nature of the cellular makeup, no?

 

[FredH]

You’ve talked around it in a condescending way without addressing it specifically, in this thread. However, you did post this in another thread:


The first half of the quoted statement would be considered a direct response to the question repeatedly posed to you in this thread. Perhaps you were too busy being impressed with yourself to understand that was the question being asked.

Are you saying you don't understand this comment? If so I can expect nothing of relevance in any post you might make.

Well it's true that energy can't tell you what shape or form a wound channel will make but is it possible it could measure wound volume roughly.

 

[Formidilosus]

Well it's true that energy can't tell you what shape or form a wound channel will make

Exactly the point everyone is saying to you.

but is it possible it could measure wound volume roughly.

No one but math dorks and engineer nerds care. That does not tell anyone, anything useful about killing an animal.

 

[FredH]

How can you unequivocally say that a 162 ELD x at 2700 will do more damage than one half the weight? That is a serious question, I am absolutely curious. Have you shot two examples side by side? Or is this just something you “know”?

I had this typed out earlier but then changed my mind.

If you drive a 3” nail into a stud with a 20 oz framing hammer with one blow, and it impacted with 700fps ( no clue on what the speed would be, its just for comparison sake) and then pounded the next nail into the same stud with a 5lb sledge impacting at the same 700fps, which has more kinetic energy? Which has done more work? Which has a different result? Is there a difference?

If you substituted an egg for the nails, which would be more smashed?
At some point the medium takes all the energy applied and the same result occurs, simply due to the nature of the cellular makeup, no?

I can easily unequivocally say that a bullet with twice the mass of another, going exactly the same speed, of exactly the same construction will disrupt more media. Your hammer nail equation is funny. It is the hammer that carries the energy not the nail. If you hit a stud with a 5 pound sledge hammer going 100 fps and did the same with the framing hammer which do you suppose will cause the most damage? Egg for nails? Is the silly putty between your ears boiling or frozen?

 

[SamsonMan22]

I can easily unequivocally say that a bullet with twice the mass of another, going exactly the same speed, of exactly the same construction will disrupt more media. Your hammer nail equation is funny. It is the hammer that carries the energy not the nail. If you hit a stud with a 5 pound sledge hammer going 100 fps and did the same with the framing hammer which do you suppose will cause the most damage? Egg for nails? Is the silly putty between your ears boiling or frozen?

How much more will it disrupt? Is it same width but twice as deep, same depth twice as wide, not enough to measure, etc? If one is already sufficient or possibly even too much who cares about more?

 

[gman82001]

Omg back to pictures of dead animals and less know it all

 

[Drenalin]

Are you saying you don't understand this comment? If so I can expect nothing of relevance in any post you might make.

With reading comprehension like that, you’re unlikely to find relevance in any post, of any kind, by anyone.

 

[goalie]

Decent sized northern MN deer with one shot, fusion bullet (62gr), ran 25 yards.

 

[KHntr]

I can easily unequivocally say that a bullet with twice the mass of another, going exactly the same speed, of exactly the same construction will disrupt more media. Your hammer nail equation is funny. It is the hammer that carries the energy not the nail. If you hit a stud with a 5 pound sledge hammer going 100 fps and did the same with the framing hammer which do you suppose will cause the most damage? Egg for nails? Is the silly putty between your ears boiling or frozen?

Soooooo thats a “no” then? You haven’t got any direct comparison data to back up your “easily unequivocal” assertion?

And yes, the hammer IS the one carrying the energy. I tried to boil it down for you (see what I did there? Egg reference) so you would look at it from a different angle but you opted to double down and switch to insults. Fair enough.

 

[The Guide]

I can unequivically say a 162 grain ELDX impacting at 2700 fps will do more to any media than the same variety of bullet bullet weighing half as much.

False statement. Why will steel will be penetrated by a 223 and dented by a 308 at the same impact velocity if they are "doing the same work"?

Jay

 

[mt100gr.]

View attachment 810130View attachment 810131
Decent sized northern MN deer with one shot, fusion bullet (62gr), ran 25 yards.

Yay!! Death post!! We're cookin' now!

Congrats!

 

[FredH]

Exactly the point everyone is saying to you.




No one but math dorks and engineer nerds care. That does not tell anyone, anything useful about killing an animal.

No most here are not getting the fact that KE is calculated with mass and velocity. I have said many times that it is bullet construction that applies that energy through how it's mass deforms. What KE defines is how much work a mass can potentially do when moving at a certain velocity. The killing of an animal depends on several things, bullet placement, how the bullets energy is utilized, even the state of mind of the animal. More kinetic energy is better up until it isn't. I'd say that is the point past adequate. Adequate is also subjective among individual preferences. Anyone who says energy plays no part in measuring cartridge performance is fooling themselves. KE is a useful equation, not perfect but still useful.

 

[goalie]

Yay!! Death post!! We're cookin' now!

Congrats!

Yeah, the "better more" dead stuff was getting old.

 

[The Guide]

No most here are not getting the fact that KE is calculated with mass and velocity. I have said many times that it is bullet construction that applies that energy through how it's mass deforms. What KE defines is how much work a mass can potentially do when moving at a certain velocity. The killing of an animal depends on several things, bullet placement, how the bullets energy is utilized, even the state of mind of the animal. More kinetic energy is better up until it isn't. I'd say that is the point past adequate. Adequate is also subjective among individual preferences. Anyone who says energy plays no part in measuring cartridge performance is fooling themselves. KE is a useful equation, not perfect but still useful.

 

[Shraggs]

“No most here are not getting the fact that KE is calculated with mass and velocity“

So you’re here to square us away…

this a room filled with very experienced folks, you’re acting the naive know it all.

Give it a rest, enjoy the devastation