.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Dorian Gray]

Western metal shows out of stock on the 77s.
They were on sale though

It's still showing as in-stock for me. Packs of 100 at 55.99$ is what I was looking at.

 

[rclouse79]

Glad they shoot well! Been my experience as well. How does the way they expire give you pause in that sense? Do they go further than you desire after being shot, they are moving longer on the ground, that type of thing. Putting the bullet where you need it is job one and sounds like you have confidence in that gun/bullet combo. If you were asking a question to yourself, you've answered it with respect to what you should be shooting given the info you shared.

I can't say I've put that much thought in it, with respect to how quick they need to expire. Some of them drop where they stand, some of them take a couple steps, some of them have gone 20 or 30 yards. That's with a sample size of over 40 big game animals from pronghorn to Whitetail to muley's to elk. To me it's all the same. Splitting hairs, taking pictures and burning the midnight oil about it doesn't fill the freezer any better.

One example would be the deer my son shot this year from just over 400 yards. He made a good shot and I knew he hit him. I could tell the deer was hurt. The deer moved closer after the shot and we didn’t adjust the scope and he missed high. Hit him again and we had to reload. He was still standing when the next shot put him down. All shots that hit were in the vitals.
I had to shoot my deer twice his year. He ran 30 yards and beaded down. He was very much still alive when I dropped him with the second.
Not a big deal, but all these bang flop stories got me thinking.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Thanks for sharing. Curious what the vitals looked like on the animals with good hits to the vitals. The first deer seemed to be very much alive, although wounded. If it went down with the last shot, maybe that was truly the one that hit the vitals like it should. Not trying to cause any problems, however a vital hit should take them down more quickly in my experience unless the bullet was outside of the expansion window, and that happens at some point no matter what bullet was shot.

With the second deer, with a hit to the vitals and bedding down, what did the vitals look like while field dressing? The first shot apparently didn't drop him, but the second one did. What was the difference in the shots that bullets fired consecutively would behave so differently? I'm trying to understand better and don't want you to take it in the wrong way. Just hard to tell if it was the last shot in each case that was the right shot because both of them dropped on the last shot, in essence the bang flop.

Barnes tatter and chunk the vital tissue vs turning to mush, just been my experience they die quickly. I can understand from the experience you shared the consideration you are having for something different.

 

[rclouse79]

I am not sure what shot was what on my son’s deer. Both of mine were kill shots. The second he was slightly quartering away and the bullet went in right in front of the rear quarter and exited right behind the front quarter.
It would be fun to be able to spot your hits with a smaller caliber and get a better idea of where each shot hit.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Yes, I agree on seeing the hit. With that said, with whatever a person may consider a larger caliber/case, I see the animal go down or not go very far.