.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Pharmseller]

Years ago I took a bunch of heat from the big-case believers when I extolled the virtues of the 7mm-08 as an elk hunting cartridge. Their mistake, as they gasped and clutched their pearls, was their belief that I said the 7mm-08 was a better choice than their 300 Whizbag Ultra Mags and why I never, how dare you? The problem was, that’s not what I said.

I see a lot of that with the .223 failure thread, as well as this one.

If I may be so bold as to speak for others (and please, correct me if I’m wrong), I’m not saying the .223 is a better choice. What I am saying is, the .223 with proper bullets is just as good.

Not better. But just as effective.

Now, if we inject shooting skills into the equation, then yes, for some the .223 will be better, because some shooters cannot handle recoil. As a result, accuracy suffers. A poor shot is a poor shot, regardless of cartridge, but the odds of a poor shot might, just might, be reduced by a cartridge with less recoil.

And to the hairy-chested he-men who opine that if you can’t handle a 30-06 level of recoil you shouldn’t be hunting, well, if the .223 is just as effective (not better), why not? It’s supposed to be fun, right?

No one is looking to take your 300 Whizbang away. I don’t give half a hoot what you shoot, it’s your money and your shoulder, after all. I’ll keep shooting elk with my 7mm-08 (.223 isn’t legal in Oregon) and deer with my .223. We’ll share a beer and stories around the campfire.

And who knows, you might just try a .223 on a prairie dog or two, then maybe, just maybe, a deer.

It could happen.




P

 

[Luke S]

Totally forgot this one from the spring

A 14 year old buddy of mine got a 6 foot black bear with a Ruger American 223 and 55 fmj. To quote the text I got after the kill...

"55 grain fmg.
Went through the the rib cage, lungs, tore up half the heart and lodged in the front leg"

I believe he told me it was generic Winchester brand ammo. Sounds like the bullet tumbled. I don't expect middle school boys to give me a perfect autopsy but he said it killed about as well as the 30-06 he used the year before.
Oh to highlight the importance of scopes over other things....
1. The boy shot his first bear with MY 30-06 because the scope on his wasn't mounted right and was visibly moving.
2. He shot THIS bear with the 223 on a hunt because another boy's rifle scope worked loose and spun in the rings, otherwise it would have been the other boy's shot.

 

[mtnbound]

Years ago I took a bunch of heat from the big-case believers when I extolled the virtues of the 7mm-08 as an elk hunting cartridge. Their mistake, as they gasped and clutched their pearls, was their belief that I said the 7mm-08 was a better choice than their 300 Whizbag Ultra Mags and why I never, how dare you? The problem was, that’s not what I said.

I see a lot of that with the .223 failure thread, as well as this one.

If I may be so bold as to speak for others (and please, correct me if I’m wrong), I’m not saying the .223 is a better choice. What I am saying is, the .223 with proper bullets is just as good.

Not better. But just as effective.

Now, if we inject shooting skills into the equation, then yes, for some the .223 will be better, because some shooters cannot handle recoil. As a result, accuracy suffers. A poor shot is a poor shot, regardless of cartridge, but the odds of a poor shot might, just might, be reduced by a cartridge with less recoil.

And to the hairy-chested he-men who opine that if you can’t handle a 30-06 level of recoil you shouldn’t be hunting, well, if the .223 is just as effective (not better), why not? It’s supposed to be fun, right?

No one is looking to take your 300 Whizbang away. I don’t give half a hoot what you shoot, it’s your money and your shoulder, after all. I’ll keep shooting elk with my 7mm-08 (.223 isn’t legal in Oregon) and deer with my .223. We’ll share a beer and stories around the campfire.

And who knows, you might just try a .223 on a prairie dog or two, then maybe, just maybe, a deer.

It could happen.




P

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[BasicUtahrd95]

Does anyone have any info/experience with Federal's CenterStrike open tip match 77gr? Supposedly it's a new bullet released about a year ago. Is it just a rebrand/knock off of something else? Anybody know of any testing done in game or gel?

 

[Bratch]

Shot a whitetail doe last night at 40-50 yards. Ruger American Predator Gen 1, AAC 77gr TMK. Blood on the spot she was standing and recovery about 40 yards away, clipped the heart and double lung. Bullet did not pass through but hit the far side rib with some blood shot meat. Pretty happy with the results and plan to continue hunting with it.

 

[Julius K]

First deer with the 223 77tmk RSS tikka swfa I bought 3 years ago. I’m usually shooting a 300wby.

203 yards, slightly quartering. Lungs, liver. The esophagus was torn at the diaphragm and allowed stomach contents into the chest but not the abdomen. Resulted in a tension hemothorax with acorns. Weird.

No blood on the ground, bullet made it to the underside of the skin on the offside.

Went 60-80 yards and piled up.


I intentionally aimed a little back off the shoulder. I shot a doe on the same spot with the wby mag last year and she made it just as far (165 btsp).

I’ll do it again. But I was nervous the first time. Still thought you guys were playing a lot of us lol.

Best part was the lack of recoil and watching impact.

 

[Swamper]

New but previously .223 suspicious convert lol - first deer with a .223. A whitetail doe with 73gr ELD-M factory Hornady. Quartering on @ 45yrds, no blood but down inside of 25 yards. The entry shoulder was pretty blown out, only a “bruise” on the inside of the exit side of the rib cage. Bullet stopped in the heart.

 

[wind gypsy]

Quartering to whitetail doe and the bullet didn't get past the heart seems less than ideal?

 

[Steve300xcw]

400 yards double lungs shot

Admittedly I missed the first and second, got him on my third while he was running.

Am I reading that right?

 

[Swamper]

I am full of questions as it is my first .223 and hoping others will chime in. I haven’t read this entire thread but have looked at a bunch of it and expected more penetration. Still happy with the final result.

Additional info- shot from a high tree stand.

 

[Mountain_Life]

I am full of questions as it is my first .223 and hoping others will chime in. I haven’t read this entire thread but have looked at a bunch of it and expected more penetration. Still happy with the final result.

Additional info- shot from a high tree stand.

How many inches of penetration do you estimate? If high shoulder, 16"?

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

I am full of questions as it is my first .223 and hoping others will chime in. I haven’t read this entire thread but have looked at a bunch of it and expected more penetration. Still happy with the final result.

Additional info- shot from a high tree stand.

I haven't personally used the 73s, but anytime someone asks about them in this thread the response has been "very good upset but less penetration than the 77tmk."

It would seem your experience aligns?

 

[bigeyedfish]

Killed my first deer with a .223 yesterday. Small whitetail buck. First shot at about 40 yards quartering away broke the right shoulder and mostly detached the heart. He mule kicked, turned left and ran. Second shot into his left side as he was running nearly broadside at about 60 yards I didn't count ribs, but the shot was in the lungs with no damage behind the diaphragm. Death was quick, and we heard him crash just over a small rise in the woods. Maybe 15 seconds from first shot to dead.

75 gr Sabre black tip. Neither bullet even made it to the offside ribs. The damage to the lungs wasn't terribly impressive, especially after seeing what an 143 gr ELD-X did to the doe I shot a week ago. I will use a different bullet next season, but I will keep using a 223.

 

[Swamper]

How many inches of penetration do you estimate? If high shoulder, 16"?

I was thinking 14” or so. But could have easily been 16”

 

[Poe]

With Tikka being smart and coming out with some options using faster twist barrels why have they not started selling some factory replacement mags that will except a longer COAL.

 

[GiantGreg]

Public land doe opening day, -90 yards
Tikka roughtech ranch 16” 223
Swfa 6x w/ holosun 407a3 , nf rings
Krg echo
Yhm t3 w/ Cole tac cover
Factory Hornady 73gr eld
Found jacket opposite shoulder,
It winced, tried twice to take a step, but couldn’t then fell over.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Brontosaurus]

Public land doe opening day, -90 yards
Tikka roughtech ranch 16” 223
Swfa 6x w/ holosun 407a3 , nf rings
Krg echo
Yhm t3 w/ Cole tac cover
Factory Hornady 73gr eld
Found jacket opposite shoulder,
It winced, tried twice to take a step, but couldn’t then fell over.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I never even considered putting a piggyback sight on a bolt gun makes sense for brush and timbered shots…how you liking it?

 

[bcmntgoathunter.]

With Tikka being smart and coming out with some options using faster twist barrels why have they not started selling some factory replacement mags that will except a longer COAL.

Because they are extremely slow to do anything positive

 

[LimeSpoon]

I was thinking 14” or so. But could have easily been 16”

To be quite frank I'm in the camp that would prefer more penetration than the 73 gr ELD-M generally offers, but in the context of anti-personnel terminal ballistics, ~15" is actually very solid. Now the reason why we're seeing that much penetration in this case probably has something to do with the bullet passing through some amount of low density tissue (e.g. lung) and/or empty space as opposed to pure muscle, but stuff like IWBA-informed testing leans more towards a somewhat conservative assumption that gel penetration will be roughly analogous to bodily penetration - disproportionate toughness of exit side skin notwithstanding - and ~12" of bodily penetration is sufficient to reach vitals from pretty much any realistic angle.

Obviously quartering animals can be a different story due to the differing anatomy and the possibility of more unconventional shooting positions, and a bullet that penetrates 14-16" on this kind of thoracic/shoulder shot could call for a measure of prudence on certain shot angles.

 

[Grizzle]

Does anyone know of anywhere selling factory loaded 77 tmk in Canada? Primer shop is apparently a scam