.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[ElPollo]

I didn't read all 463 pages of this thread.

On page 1, the OP wrote "Based on my sample of one, the 77 TMK out of a .223 is truly a lethal combination well suited to a dedicated lower 48 big game rifle."

I saw further posts showing pictures of animals killed with .223s.

Yes, if all things are perfect, a .223 will kill any of the animals that he listed.

I've had friends that used their .22-250 or .220 Swift to kill a black bear every year, multiple elk, 3 mountain goats that I knew of, and at least 4 buffalo. They were all excellent shooters, and they only talked about the animals that they had killed, they never said much about the ones that they wounded and got away.

My Eskimo guide on my Musk ox hunt told me he killed a polar bear with his .223. When I asked him how many shots it took, he just smiled.

I have 2 rifles chambered in .223, and another in .22-250 that I used to make one shot kills on at least 4 deer and pronghorn antelope. I have also killed around a dozen deer with a .22 LR (and not wounded or lost any), but I don't recommend it as a deer cartridge either.

I have also successfully DIY hunted all of the animals listed in the OP's first post, so my opinion is based on my first hand experiences and not on internet posts. Many new and inexperienced hunters look to the internet for advice for their own hunting.

Not all shots in hunting situations are perfect, and I hate to see animals being wounded and suffer after being shot, so I stand by my opinion that a .223 is lethal, but it is NOT truly well suited to a dedicated lower 48 big game rifle.


So can I only repy if I agree with the OP's post?

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

I have not become a Kool-Aid drinker, but I am willing to tasted test. 1) Tikka T3X in 223 2) Starline Brass + 69g TMk bullets Anything else I need to test the Kool-Aid? I have Tallley Rings. For now, it has a Leupold VX-Freedom. It will do until I decide what kind of scope I really want...

rokslide.com

 

[fwafwow]

I didn't read all 463 pages of this thread.

Maybe another way to say what some others have said - this thread has been going on for a while. Some of us joined late (myself included), starting with various beliefs, and some of us have changed our views. But irrespective of whether some have, or haven't, changed their views - there's a history and custom (IMHO) in this thread, and others - in that many have been following it and read through the various back and forth points/arguments/counterpoints, etc.

So if you post in a substantive manner, or even with an opinion, and you haven't read the thread, you don't know that you are making some of the arguments that have been made previously in this thread. Sometimes on multiple occasions.

As the OP said - read up (it takes a while), then let us know what you think. If you still disagree, that's of course fine, but you can then narrow your response.

 

[Schmo]

The 223 with 77TMK is sooo marginal for deer, I think I’ll use it again.

353 yards. Bang flop.

Entrance side -



No exit, blew through off side rub and stopped under skin -

 

[MEdude]

Pretty stoked, this is my first harvest of any kind and second year out hunting.
73 Eldm from 1-7 16”
20 yards and dropped

CONGRATS from the Midcoast! Nice deer.

Curious, “20 yard and dropped”, does that mean a 20 yard shot and dropped on the spot? Or a shot at some other distance, and ran 20 yards?

 

[MEwaters]

CONGRATS from the Midcoast! Nice deer.

Curious, “20 yard and dropped”, does that mean a 20 yard shot and dropped on the spot? Or a shot at some other distance, and ran 20 yards?

Where do you consider midcoast? Got it out off route 9. Monsters out there where I hunt but I took first opportunity today given kids and wife etc lol.
I hit it at about 40 yards. Sprinted right at me darted into pine thicket and died after about a 20 yard run

 

[MEdude]

midcoast

Thomaston area.
You out on the airline? I lived in Calais for a couple years.

 

[MEwaters]

Thomaston area.
You out on the airline? I lived in Calais for a couple years.

I hunt off airline but live in Bangor area. My best friend grew up in Thomason, lives in that same area now. I enjoy it there

 

[SURVEYOR]

Here’s a 77 TMK kill my boy made last night. I’ve killed a few hundred hogs and deer with 223s, mostly hogs. Approximately 1/2 were shot with cheap 55 grain soft points and 1/2 55grain FMJ. If you hit bone with an FMJ it’s usually a bullet tumble and lights out, no bone and it’s more trigger time. I’ve also shot 2 deer with Barnes and was very disappointed in the wound size. However I have used the 64 grain Winchester on 3-4 deer and it worked very well. This was a high shoulder at 150 so this doe flopped over. We need to shoot a few more before forming an opinion on the 77s. The Jagd Terrier was disappointed that it was just a dead deer and no blood trail.

 

[MEwaters]

The exit wound was not terribly large. Lungs were mush. The hide trapped the jacket and core. 73 eldm.
40 yard shot. 16”

 

[longmire-mt]

Another MT whitetail. Double lung, went 55 yards. Lungs were jello.

 

[BlackHillsShooter]

I wasn't going to post another 77TMK kill but it's kind of weird so worth mentioning. Buck above us, Terry mt called 100 yards, buck started walking so I tracked him a couple feet and shot his heart in two. Entrance hole must be splash as it's so big. I hit a rib square. Heart cut in half, no other damage. We didn't look for the bullet and I wish we had. It was cold and we'd ßbeen out all morning so we got him off the hill and into the truck pretty quickly. The gusher started within a second of the hit. It was dramatic. I saw it as I was racking a second round. He went 40-50 yards, turned and fell over.

I thoroughly expected there to be damage on the opposite side if not an exit. Looks like it dumped everything into his heart.

 

[Schmo]

Shot a muley doe this morning @ 440 yards with the Tikka 223 77TMK handloads. Impact velocity about 1950-ish. Hit the shoulder squarely and about 3 inches high. Blew through the shoulder blade, took out the spine, and through the rib cage under the off side. Put a finishing shot in her neck. Unfortunately, I missed the lungs by about an inch or so.

For those of you who say a 77 gr from a 223 won’t penetrate a shoulder, it definitely will.

 

[Trapperkid]

There’s a picture somewhere on this thread that I took of a whitetail shoulder taken off the carcass that I shot as square through the middle as possible and it blew about a quarter to half dollar size hole all the way through it

Shot a muley doe this morning @ 440 yards with the Tikka 223 77TMK handloads. Impact velocity about 1950-ish. Hit the shoulder squarely and about 3 inches high. Blew through the shoulder blade, took out the spine, and through the rib cage under the off side. Put a finishing shot in her neck. Unfortunately, I missed the lungs by about an inch or so.

For those of you who say a 77 gr from a 223 won’t penetrate a shoulder, it definitely will.

 

[huntnful]

Shot a muley doe this morning @ 440 yards with the Tikka 223 77TMK handloads. Impact velocity about 1950-ish. Hit the shoulder squarely and about 3 inches high. Blew through the shoulder blade, took out the spine, and through the rib cage under the off side. Put a finishing shot in her neck. Unfortunately, I missed the lungs by about an inch or so.

For those of you who say a 77 gr from a 223 won’t penetrate a shoulder, it definitely will.

Did you shoot her in the neck as an immediate follow up at 440yards, or was she still alive when you got up to her? Curious how long she lived.

 

[Schmo]

Could not immediately take the neck shot because she was in tall sage and I had no line of sight on her after she dropped until I was very close to her. She was down in a coulee, and I was up on a ridge. It bothers me every time they have to suffer, and I obviously try to prevent that from happening.

 

[huntnful]

Could not immediately take the neck shot because she was in tall sage and I had no line of sight on her after she dropped until I was very close to her. She was down in a coulee, and I was up on a ridge. It bothers me every time they have to suffer, and I obviously try to prevent that from happening.

Oh I totally agree man. Wasn’t trying to bring any attention towards the suffering part. It’s always unfortunate. Just the lack of lethal damage from a bullet through the shoulder and through the offside rib cage (that’s a pretty lethal angle) is what caught my attention.

 

[Schmo]

I gotcha man. As I said, 3, maybe 4 inches too high. Barely missed the lungs. My DOPE was dead on, I think I just held a touch too high, as I was intending for mid-body. Besides that, it was perfect.

 

[huntnful]

I gotcha man. As I said, 3, maybe 4 inches too high. Barely missed the lungs. My DOPE was dead on, I think I just held a touch too high, as I was intending for mid-body. Besides that, it was perfect.

Right on dude. Always appreciate the terminal reports from all scenarios and angles. Helps with understanding terminal performance for other field scenarios and decisions!

 

[Schmo]

It definitely does!

 

[ElPollo]

Killed a nice dry doe this morning and dropped her where she stood with a 77gr TMK. It was sort of anticlimactic. I was sitting on a transmission right of way on USFS land and had a 450 yard view across two drainages in either direction. But the doe walked in on my left and stood there staring at me straight on at 30 yards. I opted for less meat damage and put one through her neck. A 22 lr would have killed her.