.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Kimmo H]

Guys that are running cci 450s….

Traditionally the 223 hasn’t needed a mag primer so I’m curious as to the justification there or if it’s just because I want to? Or is it because you hunt in freezing temps?

Just curious.

I use 450 on hot loads to avoid pierced primers. My go to load with the 75gr Hornady HPBT works great with the 450s, but standard primers can't handle the pressure and most are really on the edge of puncturing especially from a hot barrel.

Federal AR gold medal primers seem pretty pressure tolerant aswell.

 

[Billogna]

23.2 8208xbr, cci450.

What COAL?

 

[SouthPaw]

What COAL?

2.42ish. I use the Waters mags for extending COAL.

Guys that are running cci 450s….

Traditionally the 223 hasn’t needed a mag primer so I’m curious as to the justification there or if it’s just because I want to? Or is it because you hunt in freezing temps?

Just curious.

Like said above they handle pressure better, and I use 450s for all my Creedmoor size guns too. Thus 95% of my shooting can be the same primer and it happens to be available more often than others.

 

[FB Trout]

Guys that are running cci 450s….

Traditionally the 223 hasn’t needed a mag primer so I’m curious as to the justification there or if it’s just because I want to? Or is it because you hunt in freezing temps?

Just curious.

Same here, I use 450s because of the thicker cup, they are also more available here locally.

 

[sierracharlie338]

I use 450 on hot loads to avoid pierced primers. My go to load with the 75gr Hornady HPBT works great with the 450s, but standard primers can't handle the pressure and most are really on the edge of puncturing especially from a hot barrel.

Federal AR gold medal primers seem pretty pressure tolerant aswell.

2.42ish. I use the Waters mags for extending COAL.


Like said above they handle pressure better, and I use 450s for all my Creedmoor size guns too. Thus 95% of my shooting can be the same primer and it happens to be available more often than others.

Same here, I use 450s because of the thicker cup, they are also more available here locally.

Makes sense all. I’m not seeing any pressure with my initial loads so guess I’ll keep an eye on them. Sure wish I could load them longer than a factory mag but don’t want to jump on the Water bandwagon just yet.

 

[IDHoundsman]

2.26” coal compatible and generally available:

77gr TMK
69gr TMK (sufficient, but less penetration)
73gr ELD-M (sufficient but TC isn’t as long)
77gr Berger OTM (higher upset velocity required)
85gr Barnes MatchBurner (good wound channels with a longer neck length)
62gr Federal Fusion (lower BC)
62 and 75gr Speer Gold Dot (62gr identical to Fusion, 75gr very good wounding)

Potentially the AAC 75gr Saber.


Not 2.26” compatible:

88gr ELD-M
80gr ELD-M
75gr ELD-M
80gr ELD-X



That’s about it for the major ones, though I’m sure there are one or two I am missing. The 77gr TMK is more like the high water mark for all around performance, though it is not the sole good .224 bullet.

Might be a dumb question, but what do you mean by TC when referring to the 73 ELDM?

 

[The Guide]

Might be a dumb question, but what do you mean by TC when referring to the 73 ELDM?

Temporary Wound Cavity or Temporary Cavity as it pertains to wound channels.

Jay

 

[Formidilosus]

Might be a dumb question, but what do you mean by TC when referring to the 73 ELDM?

Temporary stretch cavity. The tissue that is forever gradually outward by the passage of the bullet, but then generally returns back into place. I.E., “temporary”. With fragmenting bullets and bullets with sufficient impact velocity, part of the TC is permanently damaged and becomes apart of the permanent wound cavity.

 

[IDHoundsman]

Temporary stretch cavity. The tissue that is forever gradually outward by the passage of the bullet, but then generally returns back into place. I.E., “temporary”. With fragmenting bullets and bullets with sufficient impact velocity, part of the TC is permanently damaged and becomes apart of the permanent wound cavity.

What does the wound from a 73 ELDM look like at 2750 fps versus 1800 fps? Does it create a good wound cavity at 1800 fps?

 

[Reddish]

I am interested in what the 73gr ELDM does at lower velocity as well.

I picked up a T3X Stainless Superlite .223...for the kids of course as I already have a T3X Lite .223....might need a backup.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Higher velocity impact.

1900ish FPS impact (no wound photos)

 

[IDHoundsman]

I'm not Form, but the 73 ELD-M was very effective for me this past season, from pretty close to a little under 400 yards.

Any details on any of the wound channels and impact velocities? What game animals?

 

[atmat]

Any details on any of the wound channels and impact velocities? What game animals?

They kill great buddy. Shoot ‘em

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Any details on any of the wound channels and impact velocities? What game animals?

Search results for query: ELD-M

rokslide.com

 

[Marbles]

This was a larg sow. I would guess each side was more than 250 lbs and she was probably over 700 lbs on the hoof (the guys little Kabota tractor almost couldn't lift her and he said the loader was rated to 1200 lbs, so she might have been bigger).

I used the standard 22 shot placement and the 223 with 77 TMK on her as I wanted no drama given there was an even bigger bore in the pen (I'll probably be putting him down later).

It was an instant drop with little twitching. The damage was less impressive than the last one, but I found the base of the bullet in her jaw and the jacket still had some lead in it again.

Tip of the knife is on the entrance.


You can see where the base of the skull fractured.




I forgot to take pictures after cutting the skull in half on this one. The brain was mush, I could get my finger in the exit hole on the skull, but entrance was only slightly larger than about 0.4 inches in diameter and I could not pull the bone apart with my hands this time.

 

[atmat]

This was a larg sow. I would guess each side was more than 250 lbs and she was probably over 700 lbs on the hoof (the guys little Kabota tractor almost couldn't lift her and he said the loader was rated to 1200 lbs, so she might have been bigger.

I used the standard 22 shot placement and the 223 with 77 TMK on her as I wanted no drama given there was an even bigger bore in the pen (I'll probably be putting him down later).

It was an instant drop with little twitching. The damage was less impressive than the last one, but I found the base of the bullet in her jaw and the jacket still had dome lead in it again.

Tip of the knife is on the entrance.
View attachment 760473

You can see were the base of the skull fractured.
View attachment 760475

View attachment 760472View attachment 760471

I forgot to tak pictures after cutting the skull in half on this one. The brain was mush, I could get my finger in the exit hole on the skull, but entrance was only slightly larger than only about 0.4 inches in diameter and I could not pull the bone apart with my hands this time.

These are great, thank you for sharing!

 

[Thegman]

Got to try the 77TMK on moose tonight. Spike bull, but still probably about the size of a typical bull elk (?).

Behind the shoulder shot. Hit was a little high but took out lungs and he dropped at the shot (around 70 yards). Muzzle velocity is around 2,730, so probably around 2560ish impact velocity.


Far side. Only a small jacket fragment found there.


Body cavity and lungs.


20+ years ago, my first moose with a 308 dropped the same way (very similar hit), but in 25 or so moose, this is the only other non-cns shot where I've had a moose drop instantly.

 

[sierracharlie338]

Got to try the 77TMK on moose tonight. Spike bull, but still probably about the size of a typical bull elk (?).

Behind the shoulder shot. Hit was a little high but took out lungs and he dropped at the shot (around 70 yards). Muzzle velocity is around 2,730, so probably around 2560ish impact velocity.


Far side. Only a small jacket fragment found there.


Body cavity and lungs.


20+ years ago, my first moose with a 308 dropped the same way (very similar hit), but in 25 or so moose, this is the only other non-cns shot where I've had a moose drop instantly.

Great info! Congrats on the meat!

 

[ddowning]

Learn something new. Hornady's app says 1.23 gyro. That's even worse than Berger's twist calculator.

I have used stuff at close range with a 1.0 gyro and it shoots tiny. At long range, I have had stuff fall apart that isn't 1.3 or above. Higher is way better for bc consistency. In very fast cartridges with heavy bullets, you can start popping bullets without riding the edge. For data, I tried some 80 eldm in a button barrel that was supposed to be 8 twist, but turned out to be 1:8.4". They no worky! Even in hot weather the target looked like I was patterning a shotgun. That same barrel will shoot 75 bthp under 1 moa for 10 shots.

 

[xsn10s]

I have used stuff at close range with a 1.0 gyro and it shoots tiny. At long range, I have had stuff fall apart that isn't 1.3 or above. Higher is way better for bc consistency. In very fast cartridges with heavy bullets, you can start popping bullets without riding the edge. For data, I tried some 80 eldm in a button barrel that was supposed to be 8 twist, but turned out to be 1:8.4". They no worky! Even in hot weather the target looked like I was patterning a shotgun. That same barrel will shoot 75 bthp under 1 moa for 10 shots.

Yup that's what I was wondering will happen to me in cold weather. So far at 800 yards it seems to be holding up. When I get out to some private cattle ranches I'll test them out on yotes. And hopefully at some longer distances. I have a decent 75gr ELDM load already which dumped a badger at 496 yards with my AR. The same load works well in the Vanguard. I'm trying out these 80gr ELDM's because i got a good sale through my distributor.