.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[eric1115]

I've been in and out of this thread over the years and decided I'd go ahead and create an account. I have a quick question. For those of us who are unable to hunt with .22 caliber bullets, what do you suggest? I have a 6.5 Grendel AR with 18" barrel that's light and handy compared to my 308 and 6.5 Creed AR's. This past weekend I shot the Grendel and my 5.56 AR that's built almost exactly the same and they both have about the same recoil. I was shooing 77gr BTHP out of the 5.56 and 123gr Hornady ELD-M in the Grendel.

Listening to the podcasts a page back, it sounds like the ELD-M fragments / penetrates well to about 1800 FPS which should put me out to about 500 yards. I'd be curious to hear thoughts as I'd love to try hunting with my 5.56 with 77gr TMK but it's not legal here. I'm wondering if the Grendel would be an OK alternative with the ELD-M or if I should look at loading up something with a Sierra TMK?

I haven't used the 6.5 Grendel, but after killing some animals with both the .223/TMK and a 6mm ARC, I'd for sure do the ARC if I lived in a 6mm legal minimum state.

The 108 ELDM is wonderful, and from what I've seen the 123 ELDM is just fine too within its velocity window. The Grendel case is pretty ideal size to push a 6mm. Between the bump in velocity and the bump in BC, the 6mm ARC (essentially a 6.5G necked down to 6) extends range to upset velocity threshold by 150+ yards and reduces recoil from what was already very tolerable down to even nicer levels.

At the end of the day they both work. The Grendel maintains enough velocity for good bullet upset out to to 500+, and the arc gets you out to 700ish (depending on DA, MV, bullet choice). Most people have no business taking shots where that difference comes into play.

 

[3one5]

I haven't used the 6.5 Grendel, but after killing some animals with both the .223/TMK and a 6mm ARC, I'd for sure do the ARC if I lived in a 6mm legal minimum state.

The 108 ELDM is wonderful, and from what I've seen the 123 ELDM is just fine too within its velocity window. The Grendel case is pretty ideal size to push a 6mm. Between the bump in velocity and the bump in BC, the 6mm ARC (essentially a 6.5G necked down to 6) extends range to upset velocity threshold by 150+ yards and reduces recoil from what was already very tolerable down to even nicer levels.

At the end of the day they both work. The Grendel maintains enough velocity for good bullet upset out to to 500+, and the arc gets you out to 700ish (depending on DA, MV, bullet choice). Most people have no business taking shots where that difference comes into play.

Thanks for that additional information. I did just about pull the trigger on a 6ARC barrel the other day but have a number of calibers already and probably don't need as much overlap as I do.

Where I hunt, typically the longest shot is about 400 yards so I'm think I should be alright with what I have. I say that now, I'll probably end up with a 6ARC eventually...

 

[sierracharlie338]

I've been in and out of this thread over the years and decided I'd go ahead and create an account. I have a quick question. For those of us who are unable to hunt with .22 caliber bullets, what do you suggest? I have a 6.5 Grendel AR with 18" barrel that's light and handy compared to my 308 and 6.5 Creed AR's. This past weekend I shot the Grendel and my 5.56 AR that's built almost exactly the same and they both have about the same recoil. I was shooing 77gr BTHP out of the 5.56 and 123gr Hornady ELD-M in the Grendel.

Listening to the podcasts a page back, it sounds like the ELD-M fragments / penetrates well to about 1800 FPS which should put me out to about 500 yards. I'd be curious to hear thoughts as I'd love to try hunting with my 5.56 with 77gr TMK but it's not legal here. I'm wondering if the Grendel would be an OK alternative with the ELD-M or if I should look at loading up something with a Sierra TMK?

The G is a deer killing machine with the ELD-Ms. Plink with the 556 and hunt with the G. You won’t be disappointed.

 

[WIDrake]

I have 500 77gr tmks on the way and a spare 223 upper that I've never used. An older bush master carbon 15 upper, so we will see how it does with them. If it doesn't give me sub moa bench accuracy I'll be turning it into a 22 arc and using them with that. Just another project for this winter

 

[Luke S]

I've posted elsewhere but I can say that a 6.5 Grendel works very well on black bears We used that exact same 123 grain hornaday ELDX bullet to kill four different black bears this year. The biggest was about six feet and had a really wide torso The bullet went in behind the shoulder and exited out the other side with a big bloody trail that wouldn't have been much bigger with a 308

 

[North River]

I killed a buck last fall with my Grendel that my buddy had wounded with a 6 ARC. Must mean it’s better right?

In truth I would likely choose the ARC or more likely the 223 over the Grendel if I was starting from scratch. But I have enough ammo and components to overcome what little advantage they may have so I’ll keep shooting the original. It has been very effective on caribou, deer, mt goat.

 

[PistolPete]

The Grendel does have something over the ARC - 75 cents per round hunting ammo with a 0.5 BC (AAC Black Tip). That's nothing to sneeze at!

 

[LCV]

The Grendel does have something over the ARC - 75 cents per round hunting ammo with a 0.5 BC (AAC Black Tip). That's nothing to sneeze at!

AAC will be making 6 arc ammo very soon

 

[The Guide]

AAC will be making 6 arc ammo very soon

That wouldn't suck!

Jay

 

[zdc1775]

AAC will be making 6 arc ammo very soon

I look forward to that happening.

 

[3one5]

Hard to reload and beat the price on some of the AAC offerings. Biggest gain on the reloading side is developing a load to your specific rifle and then consistency.

 

[gwak06]

I have 500 77gr tmks on the way and a spare 223 upper that I've never used. An older bush master carbon 15 upper, so we will see how it does with them. If it doesn't give me sub moa bench accuracy I'll be turning it into a 22 arc and using them with that. Just another project for this winter

Where did you find them?

 

[Big_wals]

Where did you find them?

Dude, thats like asking someone what unit they kill big bulls in!

I have 500 77gr tmks on the way

But yeah, where DID you find them?

 

[3one5]

Dude, thats like asking someone what unit they kill big bulls in!

But yeah, where DID you find them?

I gave up looking and figured I’d try again in a few months.

 

[KHntr]

A even better choice for big game is a 150 grain hunting bullet, IMO, particularly larger quarry. BTW, thanks for the “all due respect”.

So here is the thing when it comes to that particular statement.... I've killed a fair number of moose and elk with 264WM/7wsm/280AI/300WM/300Ultra, etc, with controlled expansion bullets, mono's, cup and cores, etc, and typically saw bullet wound channels of 1-2" in diameter, for 30-60" (depending on mono or not) with broken bones in between. With an 88 ELD m spun 1:7", I am seeing 2" diameter wound channels for 30+ inches and broken bones....

Can't see how I would be giving up anything at all in terms of terminal performance, regardless of animal size by making a "better choice" and going back to a 150 gr bullet of any diameter.

As much as I don't want to say it, there is a lot of truth in the statement "there is a difference between having 30 years of experience, and 1 year of experience 30 times over..."

 

[WIDrake]

Where did you find them?

Shhhh the secret is picking up certs for Sierra bullets at the prize table at prs matches.

 

[WIDrake]

Dude, thats like asking someone what unit they kill big bulls in!

But yeah, where DID you find them?

Like I said to gwak, it certs for free bullets off prs prize tables lol. I know they expect you to use them for prs but also.... That's a few years of hunting bullets when it only takes 100 of them a year! 99 for sighting and practice with them and one for deer.

 

[mustelid_master]

Is anyone out there aware of pending minimum caliber legislation in any states? I would like to do a 223, but if more legal doors are closing, then it is tough.

 

[sierracharlie338]

Went and got my daughters RSS zeroed today. Besides the brutal heat at 9am and 90% humidity, that little gun is just plain fun!

Ran out of time to test some handloads but the factory stuff I was shooting was easily MOA without a solid rest. I might have to pick up a second one so I don’t have to pretend I’m shooting my daughters for her….

 

[atmat]

Is anyone out there aware of pending minimum caliber legislation in any states? I would like to do a 223, but if more legal doors are closing, then it is tough.

Honestly, get a 223 anyway.

I live in a state with 6mm restrictions. I still own a 223. They’re so cheap to practice with compared to most rounds, that it’s actually cheaper to buy one as a second rifle if you’re getting volume shooting in.