.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[ARK_Ginger]

@PNWGATOR I'm contemplating a Nilgai hunt on South Texas next year. I WANT to believe, but what says the hive mind? This is given they allow it with a 300WM minimum stipulation, but they allowed my parents to use a 7mmRM back in the 80s with two bulls on the ground for their efforts. Their consideration for diverting from the requirement was a little smaller of a gap than what I'm asking, but we'll see!

For all the talk about them being tough, they likely aren't bigger than elk and certainly not bigger than the moose killed in this thread. It would be interesting to know if anyone has accurate measurements of how much muscle tissue there is in the front shoulder to compare against average elk.

Ryan Avery's son killed one with a 6 UM I believe. I'll be surprised if the outfit will allow you to use a 22 cal if they're trying to dictate 300 WM on their customers. You should build a 22 CM and call it a 556 magnum, that might sway them.

 

[RockAndSage]

For all the talk about them being tough, they likely aren't bigger than elk and certainly not bigger than the moose killed in this thread. It would be interesting to know if anyone has accurate measurements of how much muscle tissue there is in the front shoulder to compare against average elk.

Ryan Avery's son killed one with a 6 UM I believe. I'll be surprised if the outfit will allow you to use a 22 cal if they're trying to dictate 300 WM on their customers. You should build a 22 CM and call it a 556 magnum, that might sway them.

556 Nitro Express.

 

[CMCctx]

For all the talk about them being tough, they likely aren't bigger than elk and certainly not bigger than the moose killed in this thread. It would be interesting to know if anyone has accurate measurements of how much muscle tissue there is in the front shoulder to compare against average elk.

Ryan Avery's son killed one with a 6 UM I believe. I'll be surprised if the outfit will allow you to use a 22 cal if they're trying to dictate 300 WM on their customers. You should build a 22 CM and call it a 556 magnum, that might sway them.

That's a good point! I've been tempted to build a 22CM, but the thought of adding a new caliber to my existing lineup sounds daunting. I could appease them with 300WM for a bull (although more tempting to use my 7mmRM to bring the hunt full circle of a generation and 40-some-odd year span at the same place (even better if I can source a red plaid shirt my dad was wearing in the photo)), and add on a cow with the request that I use 223/77TMK goodness. For that animal specifically it would be a great autopsy comparison on Nilgai (elevation, terrain, shooter, temperature, time of year, feeding habits/body makeup, etc. would all be the same with the only measurable variable being caliber/projectile change, aside from sex and body weight).

 

[ElPollo]

For all the talk about them being tough, they likely aren't bigger than elk and certainly not bigger than the moose killed in this thread. It would be interesting to know if anyone has accurate measurements of how much muscle tissue there is in the front shoulder to compare against average elk.

Ryan Avery's son killed one with a 6 UM I believe. I'll be surprised if the outfit will allow you to use a 22 cal if they're trying to dictate 300 WM on their customers. You should build a 22 CM and call it a 556 magnum, that might sway them.

The toughness of Nilgai is largely related to the fact that their vitals are further forward under the shoulder like a lot of other old world game species. Americans tend to shoot them in the crease or behind, missing most of the vitals. You hear the exact same thing with oryx needing a 300 WM. But even a 300 WM doesn’t help with bad shot placement. I would be confident that a 223 with TMKs would kill a nilgai handily if you hit them in the right place. Although I also agree with @wind gypsy that the likelihood of a guide letting them use a 223 on a bull nilgai or even a cow is low.

 

[z987k]

The toughness of Nilgai is largely related to the fact that their vitals are further forward under the shoulder like a lot of other old world game species. Americans tend to shoot them in the crease or behind, missing most of the vitals. You hear the exact same thing with oryx needing a 300 WM. But even a 300 WM doesn’t help with bad shot placement. I would be confident that a 223 with TMKs would kill a nilgai handily if you hit them in the right place. Although I also agree with @wind gypsy that the likelihood of a guide letting them use a 223 on a bull nilgai or even a cow is low.

The toughness of every animal seems to be related to how far the vitals are from a standard white tail and nothing else.

 

[Nomosendero]

I have been checking on a Nilgai hunt as well. My guide insists on 300WM or above, that's fine I have a Seekins 300WM. But doubt it's necessary. They insist the hide is very thick also.

 

[TxxAgg]

A lot of the nilgai guides will do night hunts and they head shoot them with 223's. Kind of ironic.

 

[Nine Banger]

What are the go to powders for the 77 TMK? I can’t find XBR 8208. What are some comparable, preferably temp stable, alternatives? I saw someone using Varget and some recommending TAC.

Accurate 2520 is cheap and plentiful. I loaded 25.5gr for the bear hunt in this post and had pressure signs when the ammo was left out in the sun all afternoon but not when the ammo was stored out of the sun.

 

[Nine Banger]

I picked up a bunch of 77gr SMK "factory seconds" from Midway that fly about the same as the TMK's with same powder, OAL, etc. which is probably splitting hairs but it doesn't feel like I'm wasting the "good stuff".

 

[ElPollo]

I have been checking on a Nilgai hunt as well. My guide insists on 300WM or above, that's fine I have a Seekins 300WM. But doubt it's necessary. They insist the hide is very thick also.

Most people would rather say “thick hide” instead of “I suck at shooting”.

 

[ElPollo]

That said, I get it. That is hard country covered in thick, sharp shit that you really don’t want to track something in. Did some work down there last month. 117 degree heat index and I came back looking like I lost a knife fight. Also had a spine stuck in my knuckle that made my hand swell up like an mma glove. Thank god for antibiotics or that country would have killed me or changed my nickname to Leftie.

 

[Nomosendero]

Most people would rather say “thick hide” instead of “I suck at shooting”.

Yes, that could be the case. As I stated, only repeating what the Guide said, I do not have personal experience with these animals. I would like to hear more from those that do.

 

[JackButler]

Always looking at options that will work and be a bit more reasonably priced and easily available . If you reload that’s one thing, but a box of 50 black hills 77tmk ammo is $80 plus shipping at luckygunner. I’ve never seen a box in a LGS near me.

Well I don't really know what blinkered means. But the 77 TMK works very well, has been available lately, and shoots good. So i don't have any reason to buy/test/shoot anything else in .224. I'm certain there are others, but why bother?

 

[SloppyJ]

Anyone using 5.56 cans on their .223's? I have a DA Nomad Ti and a RSS in the works. Wondering if it's worth it to have a dedicated can, especially given the short wait times.

Using a dilligent defense wolf hunter and it's amazing. I'll eventually try my 30cal cans on it but there's no way they're better. It's stupid.

 

[Tahr]

Another perspective. .223 Tikka.
250 yards. 74 grn Berger Jacketed custom. 2970fps.
The flashing light is the range finder.

 

[GearForce1]

I’ve shot 2 does with 77gr SMKs from a 14.5” Criterion barreled AR at 65 yards and the furthest I’ve had to track was 3 yards so far. I was extremely hesitant to try the round on deer at first but after reading this thread for weeks I gave it a “shot” and it was actually pretty astounding the amount of shock that it sent through both deer.

 

[SloppyJ]

Still trying to find some damn 77tmks. You guys have the market on lock down.

 

[roymunson]

Still trying to find some damn 77tmks. You guys have the market on lock down.

There’s some for sale on the classifieds


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GearForce1]

Palmetto State Armory also loads a 77gr TMK round that I’ve had great accuracy results with but haven’t used on game yet

 

[ianpadron]

Elusive Kimber Montana in 223 ready to rock.

Curious to see if the 9 twist will stabilize TMKs at my elevation, will shoot 75 BTHPs and 62 Fusions if they don't cooperate.