.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[ianpadron]

Okay I’ll keep an eye out man. Do you mind me asking what you paid ?


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$265 and $280 shipped

 

[swavescatter]

Has anyone here tried to nose ring a 77gr smk and shoot an animal with it? Seems like it would upset more consistently?

Just curious since there are so many cheap/accurate options with the 77gr smk, is it as simple as buying a nose ring tool and getting good and consistent performance on critters?

I asked this about Berger 156's, and Form (I believe) responded that the nose ring approach is a red herring, and not likely the reason DTACs can be effective (they tumble). They seemed to be studying the nose ring approach and weren't convinced it actually helped bullets open up on impact like advertised. I'm guessing the TMK's are still the best option.

Maybe they'll correct me.

@Formidilosus @Ryan Avery

 

[roosiebull]

I asked this about Berger 156's, and Form (I believe) responded that the nose ring approach is a red herring, and not likely the reason DTACs can be effective (they tumble). They seemed to be studying the nose ring approach and weren't convinced it actually helped bullets open up on impact like advertised. I'm guessing the TMK's are still the best option.

Maybe they'll correct me.

@Formidilosus @Ryan Avery

Thanks, I figured if it was something that was a good option, it would be in practice, I was just curious, mainly because the nose ringed dtac being a thing and smk’s not reliably upsetting

 

[Formidilosus]

Has anyone here tried to nose ring a 77gr smk and shoot an animal with it? Seems like it would upset more consistently?

Just curious since there are so many cheap/accurate options with the 77gr smk, is it as simple as buying a nose ring tool and getting good and consistent performance on critters?

I asked this about Berger 156's, and Form (I believe) responded that the nose ring approach is a red herring, and not likely the reason DTACs can be effective (they tumble). They seemed to be studying the nose ring approach and weren't convinced it actually helped bullets open up on impact like advertised. I'm guessing the TMK's are still the best option.

Maybe they'll correct me.

@Formidilosus @Ryan Avery

So Nose Ringing does seem to help OTM’s or pointed OTM’s like some SMK’s upset earlier or more reliably. @eoperator has seen some indications in gel that NR Bergers have a shorter neck length than standard, but they also upset better in the beginning than SMK’s. A NR 77gr SMK would probably be fine, but will be more variable than a tipped bullet by far. The Nose Ring tool is also expensive. Between the 77gr SMK even with a NR, and the 73gr ELD-M- the 73gr ELD-M is a way easier, more available option.

In general unless there is a compelling reason to NR a bullet (6mm heavy projectile for instance), plastic tipped bullets are a better, more reliable option.

 

[roosiebull]

So Nose Ringing does seem to help OTM’s or pointed OTM’s like some SMK’s upset earlier or more reliably. @eoperator has seen some indications in gel that NR Bergers have a shorter neck length than standard, but they also upset better in the beginning than SMK’s. A NR 77gr SMK would probably be fine, but will be more variable than a tipped bullet by far. The Nose Ring tool is also expensive. Between the 77gr SMK even with a NR, and the 73gr ELD-M- the 73gr ELD-M is a way easier, more available option.

In general unless there is a compelling reason to NR a bullet (6mm heavy projectile for instance), plastic tipped bullets are a better, more reliable option.

Excellent, thanks for the reply

 

[waterengineer]

Thanks to everyone that has contributed evidence and knowledge to this great thread! I found it and read the whole thing in January 2023. I just finished reading it for a second time.

It saved my dad’s whitetail hunting season this year. He had eye surgery and the doctor said he couldn’t shoot his typical rifle due to recoil. He asked about the .223 and the doctor was okay with the lower recoil. He ended up killing 2 deer with 77 gr TMK’s and another with 62 gr Fusion. I don’t think he would have tried it without me insisting it would work based on the evidence shown here.

 

[swavescatter]

I have two Oryx tags next week. Private land guided so almost guaranteed within 200 yds...

Still nervous to try 223 for some reason. Might just go with the mighty 6.5 creed...

 

[atmat]

I have two Oryx tags next week. Private land guided so almost guaranteed within 200 yds...

Still nervous to try 223 for some reason. Might just go with the mighty 6.5 creed...

Just shoot the 223

 

[wind gypsy]

The D-18 has more than threading and a bolt handle.

The cart price for the blued .223 is $699 from Eurooptic. Less $75 rebate you're looking at $624.

D-18 add-ons:
$150 to thread (estimated)
$70 oversized bolt handle (DIY estimate at $50 plus tax and shipping)
$100 to flute
$150 muzzle brake
$125 cerakote
$595

$624+$595= $1,219

So $874 for the D-18 after rebate is a damn good deal to most I think. The .243 is 1:8 twist as well.

EDIT: also comes with a fluted bolt, so probably another $100 or so in savings over the standard blued model on sale at Europtic.

No denying its a good deal and for someone who wants a 24" threaded barrel it's a great setup, especially having 5/8 threads. 24" is pretty long for suppressed though and then you're dealing with the fluting if you want to cut it shorter. Fluting, the bolt knob (compared to an $8 tourbon), a radial brake (would replace with side discharge if using a brake), fluted bolt (no benefit), cerakote, combined are less valuable to me than just having stainless. (I assume the bass pro models aren't ss?).

 

[sveltri]

No denying its a good deal and for someone who wants a 24" threaded barrel it's a great setup, especially having 5/8 threads. 24" is pretty long for suppressed though and then you're dealing with the fluting if you want to cut it shorter. Fluting, the bolt knob (compared to an $8 tourbon), a radial brake (would replace with side discharge if using a brake), fluted bolt (no benefit), cerakote, combined are less valuable to me than just having stainless. (I assume the bass pro models aren't ss?).

They are SS

 

[JJ3]

Long time lurker...time to add a data point.

First off I have followed the thread since the fist few posts and have read it in entirety a couple times over the last couple years. I update the thread daily during hunting season also.

I typically hunt ridge areas and fields in NWGA. Shots range from 10-400yds. I prefer to carry my 10.5" 300 Blackout suppressed SBR, 1-4 scope, with Barnes Tac-Tx as it is easy to carry, does not require ear pro and has never let me down. It has also has yet to require a tracking job more than 30yds. I am comfortable with a 250yd shot with this setup.

I am a AR15 hobbyist. I like the ergos, Im comfortable with one and I shoot them often from 10-300yds in various positions at my local rifle club. For all the reasons pointed out in this thread I gravitate towards 223/556 but I still hunt with my 300BO.

The new area I am hunting this year is so thick plus leaves have been late to fall that my Vortex 1-4 just isnt doing it.....I missed a couple doe opportunities recently. I did not have time to swap optics so I took my 10.5" red dot equipped 556 house gun with 73ELDs out on Christmas eve morning to get those does I missed the previous outing.

Well less than an hour in the 180lb +/- 7point we call Loki that Ive been watching on camera for 6 months comes in to about 40yds stopping in one of the very, very few shooting lanes available in this spot. In the 10sec transaction he took a 73 ELD in center of chest, turned with tail down and slowly trotted off. I felt like it was a good hit and thought I heard him crash down the North (steep) side hill out of sight. I waited an hour to get down.....alone with my thoughts.

Once I got down to find him I found ZERO blood or hair.....nothing. I was sick. Looked for 1.5hrs before calling in the dog and help. Dog found him in 5min, buried in a ravine head down 30yd from where he was hit. We drug him an hour out of the ridges to where a vehicle could access for the remaining haul.

We do gutless processing, were wore out and were in a hurry to say the least so no necropsy pics. Opening him up he was full of blood, I assume the heart was destroyed and pumping it into the chest cavity.

Soooo.....It work and worked well at killing a mature buck. Maybe better than my beloved barnes 110s. It did not leave any blood to track and in this area thats a problem without a good dog. I will try the 77TMK before our season is over

 

[waterengineer]

Long time lurker...time to add a data point.

First off I have followed the thread since the fist few posts and have read it in entirety a couple times over the last couple years. I update the thread daily during hunting season also.

I typically hunt ridge areas and fields in NWGA. Shots range from 10-400yds. I prefer to carry my 10.5" 300 Blackout suppressed SBR, 1-4 scope, with Barnes Tac-Tx as it is easy to carry, does not require ear pro and has never let me down. It has also has yet to require a tracking job more than 30yds. I am comfortable with a 250yd shot with this setup.

I am a AR15 hobbyist. I like the ergos, Im comfortable with one and I shoot them often from 10-300yds in various positions at my local rifle club. For all the reasons pointed out in this thread I gravitate towards 223/556 but I still hunt with my 300BO.

The new area I am hunting this year is so thick plus leaves have been late to fall that my Vortex 1-4 just isnt doing it.....I missed a couple doe opportunities recently. I did not have time to swap optics so I took my 10.5" red dot equipped 556 house gun with 73ELDs out on Christmas eve morning to get those does I missed the previous outing.

Well less than an hour in the 180lb +/- 7point we call Loki that Ive been watching on camera for 6 months comes in to about 40yds stopping in one of the very, very few shooting lanes available in this spot. In the 10sec transaction he took a 73 ELD in center of chest, turned with tail down and slowly trotted off. I felt like it was a good hit and thought I heard him crash down the North (steep) side hill out of sight. I waited an hour to get down.....alone with my thoughts.

Once I got down to find him I found ZERO blood or hair.....nothing. I was sick. Looked for 1.5hrs before calling in the dog and help. Dog found him in 5min, buried in a ravine head down 30yd from where he was hit. We drug him an hour out of the ridges to where a vehicle could access for the remaining haul.

We do gutless processing, were wore out and were in a hurry to say the least so no necropsy pics. Opening him up he was full of blood, I assume the heart was destroyed and pumping it into the chest cavity.

Soooo.....It work and worked well at killing a mature buck. Maybe better than my beloved barnes 110s. It did not leave any blood to track and in this area thats a problem without a good dog. I will try the 77TMK before our season is over

View attachment 651474View attachment 651475View attachment 651476View attachment 651477

JJ3, congratulations on the nice buck!

Here are some more details on my family’s experience this year to add to the data. The lack of blood trail with the 77 TMK is the reason my dad switched to the 62 gr Fusion. Both deer shot with the TMK made it to the woods before dying. They both died within 40 yards of where they were shot. For him, I think it was an issue of shot placement (too far back). He hit the doe with 62 gr Fusion a little further forward and the deer died in the field.

I also killed two with the 77 TMK this year with a 16” AR-15. The first was around 200 yards. I hit low and just behind the shoulder. There was a huge blood trail and the deer was less than 20 yards from where I shot.

After seeing the lack of blood trail on my dad’s two deer, I came back to this thread and saw recommendations for a high shoulder shot. The second deer I shot was around 100 yards and I went with the high shoulder shot. It was nice seeing the deer drop immediately.


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[Tobe_B]

Not sure this entirely counts as a data point. I finally got the chance to utilize some TMKs in my 5.56 rifle. Got a chance to go chase pigs and aoudad on my family’s place in Texas. I committed and only brought one rifle with me, with the sole purpose of shooting a ram with it. Unfortunately, I didn’t get any chances at a ram, but I took two pigs that presented opportunities. Both dropped in their tracks. I shot one of them twice even though he didn’t need it, and only because my daughter was standing behind me and concerned he was going to try to get up.

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[Tobe_B]

Second pig was a bloody mess. Both shots were about 65 yards. Drives me crazy that I can’t legally use this combination in Colorado. But I’ll never bother carrying more in states that allow it.


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[Xlr8n]

Bump

 

[Darryle]

I tried to search and yielded nothing. And since this thread has the most comprehensive collection of 223 data/experiences, has any on tried the Nosler 224 64gr Protected Point Bonded Solid Base?

 

[Mike D Texas]

I tried to search and yielded nothing. And since this thread has the most comprehensive collection of 223 data/experiences, has any on tried the Nosler 224 64gr Protected Point Bonded Solid Base?
View attachment 652279

Not yet Darryle but I have some loaded up for my 220 Swift.

I expect massive carnage.


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[xsn10s]

I tried to search and yielded nothing. And since this thread has the most comprehensive collection of 223 data/experiences, has any on tried the Nosler 224 64gr Protected Point Bonded Solid Base?
View attachment 652279

Here's a thread that I found. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...414866/all/nosler-224-64-gr-solid-base-bonded

 

[ElPollo]

I have two Oryx tags next week. Private land guided so almost guaranteed within 200 yds...

Still nervous to try 223 for some reason. Might just go with the mighty 6.5 creed...

I’m guessing these are the scimitar-horned variety in TX. Just remember that their vitals are further forward than the deer and elk you are used to shooting. Look it up before you hunt. Those critters have a reputation as being tough to kill, but it’s just because a normal shot in the crease ends up around the rear edge of the lungs. Hit ‘em in the pump and they die like everything else.

 

[roosiebull]

Long time lurker...time to add a data point.

First off I have followed the thread since the fist few posts and have read it in entirety a couple times over the last couple years. I update the thread daily during hunting season also.

I typically hunt ridge areas and fields in NWGA. Shots range from 10-400yds. I prefer to carry my 10.5" 300 Blackout suppressed SBR, 1-4 scope, with Barnes Tac-Tx as it is easy to carry, does not require ear pro and has never let me down. It has also has yet to require a tracking job more than 30yds. I am comfortable with a 250yd shot with this setup.

I am a AR15 hobbyist. I like the ergos, Im comfortable with one and I shoot them often from 10-300yds in various positions at my local rifle club. For all the reasons pointed out in this thread I gravitate towards 223/556 but I still hunt with my 300BO.

The new area I am hunting this year is so thick plus leaves have been late to fall that my Vortex 1-4 just isnt doing it.....I missed a couple doe opportunities recently. I did not have time to swap optics so I took my 10.5" red dot equipped 556 house gun with 73ELDs out on Christmas eve morning to get those does I missed the previous outing.

Well less than an hour in the 180lb +/- 7point we call Loki that Ive been watching on camera for 6 months comes in to about 40yds stopping in one of the very, very few shooting lanes available in this spot. In the 10sec transaction he took a 73 ELD in center of chest, turned with tail down and slowly trotted off. I felt like it was a good hit and thought I heard him crash down the North (steep) side hill out of sight. I waited an hour to get down.....alone with my thoughts.

Once I got down to find him I found ZERO blood or hair.....nothing. I was sick. Looked for 1.5hrs before calling in the dog and help. Dog found him in 5min, buried in a ravine head down 30yd from where he was hit. We drug him an hour out of the ridges to where a vehicle could access for the remaining haul.

We do gutless processing, were wore out and were in a hurry to say the least so no necropsy pics. Opening him up he was full of blood, I assume the heart was destroyed and pumping it into the chest cavity.

Soooo.....It work and worked well at killing a mature buck. Maybe better than my beloved barnes 110s. It did not leave any blood to track and in this area thats a problem without a good dog. I will try the 77TMK before our season is over

View attachment 651474View attachment 651475View attachment 651476View attachment 651477

Super cool buck! Well done