.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[ztc92]

Technical question
It's probably been answered lots here...but I've never seen this scenario come up.
2600-2700 fps impact on an elk humerus. Quartered toward...I don't doubt the 77 tmk has what it takes to penetrate that, just wonder what kind of penetration beyond the humerus one could expect?
Like everyone else I claim to have special needs.lol.
However I do hunt North Idaho where I prefer timber hunting, and I'm used to shooting quartered toward or really whatever as long as I can see the vitals. I don't own a 223 but it's my next rifle.
I'm not doubting it's abilities...I've seen what those 77's do
Have killed bulls here with the bow. And packed out some monster bodied elk. The "shoulders" don't scare me in the slightest. Just a close range high impact velocity humerus hit.
@Formidilosis

Not exactly what you asked but I shot my elk at 330 yards last year with an impact velocity of roughly 2200 FPS. Here was my description of the wound, second shot was at the joint of scapula and humerus.

Unfortunately I don’t have any wound photos as it was getting dark/cold and we wanted to get moving. We used the gutless method so didn’t really see the internal damage. I can tell you externally my first hit was high and behind the shoulder, seemed to go through 1-2 ribs, make a roughly 3” diameter hole and likely destroyed the lungs, though it did not exit. My second hit was where the front shoulder meets the leg, went through the closest “elbow” joint, just above the sternum, destroyed the heart and a portion of the bullet exited and lodged in the far “elbow”. Third hit was unfortunately a bad shot as I rushed it to put her down. Hit her in the rear quarter and that made a roughly golf-ball sized hole in the meat there.

I’ll try to get photos of the rear quarter when I process it if I remember later.

 

[Anschutz]

With hits vitals the animals seem just as dead as anything else I’ve used. Most have been “bang flops” on chest shots, which tells me it doesn’t take a grenade to achieve that result.

Always showed good expansion, and quickly. Always exits, including gigantic holes if bone was hit on the way out. But they aren’t sending lead fragments everywhere, which seems to be the cup of tea here and is effective.

Plenty of reading on Cast Boolits has told me you don't need explosive performance. There are thousands of examples on that site of hunks of lead at moderate (sub-1k to 2kish fps) velocities killing game animals from small game to African game.

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[Hoopleheader]

Plenty of reading on Cast Boolits has told me you don't need explosive performance. There are thousands of examples on that site of hunks of lead at moderate (sub-1k to 2kish fps) velocities killing game animals from small game to African game.

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Expansion, original diameter, meplat shape and weight retention doing the job vs fragments.

I of course wouldn’t want to pull a Quigly with a 45-70 hardcast at a half mile like some of the shots I’m seeing on the .223 thread, but at 600 yards a 430gr hardcast from Buffalo Bore is going about the MV of a 230 gr 45 ACP and will kill game.

Let’s see them tang sight kills!

 

[Tahr]

View attachment 641412

GFL are Fiocchi

 

[robtattoo]

Expansion, original diameter, meplat shape and weight retention doing the job vs fragments.

I of course wouldn’t want to pull a Quigly with a 45-70 hardcast at a half mile like some of the shots I’m seeing on the .223 thread, but at 600 yards a 430gr hardcast from Buffalo Bore is going about the MV of a 230 gr 45 ACP and will kill game.

Let’s see them tang sight kills!

But unfortunately, it'll have passed from supersonic, through trans & into subsonic. Chances are it's no longer traveling in the same direction!
Personally, I favor 510gn fairly soft cast bullets, started right at the limits of subsonic velocity. At 800yds, I've only lost 136fps I never have managed to hunt with it though!

 

[RockChukkar]

But unfortunately, it'll have passed from supersonic, through trans & into subsonic. Chances are it's no longer traveling in the same direction!
Personally, I favor 510gn fairly soft cast bullets, started right at the limits of subsonic velocity. At 800yds, I've only lost 136fps I never have managed to hunt with it though!
View attachment 642360View attachment 642361

How much drop are we talking at 800yds on that load?

 

[robtattoo]

How much drop are we talking at 800yds on that load?

49 feet, 7½ inches. Time of flight is 2.13 seconds.

 

[mt terry d]

I never have managed to hunt with it though!
View attachment 642360View attachment 642361

Well, get with it; it ain't going to shoot itself!

 

[Hoopleheader]

49 feet, 7½ inches. Time of flight is 2.13 seconds.

Plenty of time to reload, switch to your spotting scope and spot your impact.

put a can on that thing and they won’t here you a half mile away for follow up shots.

No lupold scope to break.

No bolt to bind (supposedly a big Rokslide concern favoring Tikkas).

I think we just found the new rokslide special.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Someone please post a recent experience afield with the .223 chasing big game so we can get this thread back on track!

Still some late season opportunities AND spring brown bear season is just around the corner.

 

[Shraggs]

Someone please post a recent experience afield with the .223 chasing big game so we can get this thread back on track!

Still some late season opportunities AND spring brown bear season is just around the corner.

Maybe someone above can start a new dedicated thread on cast bullets use and performance.

It’s nice to keep this thread focused as a 223/77 “reference” for those interested.

 

[KHNC]

Well ill try to get it refocused. Just bought a Tikka T3X Lite Black in .223 a few mins ago. On way to FFL by 12/28 supposedly. I wont have in time for this deer season use. Not to mention I dont even need the damn thing. lol. But what the hell, I already have the SWFA scope. 22 in barrel so I will be visiting my gunsmith again to have yet another barrel cut down to 16" and threaded.

 

[Anschutz]

Maybe someone above can start a new dedicated thread on cast bullets use and performance.

It’s nice to keep this thread focused as a 223/77 “reference” for those interested.

Sorry about that.

From my reading, I'm seeing that most shots are relatively short (sub-200). For those that are stretching the .223 closer to that 1800fps range, what are you using for wind calls?

My assumption is a Kestrel and Applied Ballistics. From my observations of the .223 and a 75gr ELD-M or BTHP in non-hunting scenarios, I've noticed that from 300ish on, a really good wind call is critical. At 400, the difference between 5 and 10mph is 7ish". Start adding angles, and such and errors can compound quickly.

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[PNWGATOR]

Sorry about that.

From my reading, I'm seeing that most shots are relatively short (sub-200). For those that are stretching the .223 closer to that 1800fps range, what are you using for wind calls?

My assumption is a Kestrel and Applied Ballistics. From my observations of the .223 and a 75gr ELD-M or BTHP in non-hunting scenarios, I've noticed that from 300ish on, a really good wind call is critical. At 400, the difference between 5 and 10mph is 7ish". Start adding angles, and such and errors can compound quickly.

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I use ‘wind brackets’ for my wind calls based on all data input into Shooter.

 

[Pharmseller]

I lick my finger and hold into the cold side.





P

 

[sierracharlie338]

Not to mention I dont even need the damn thing.

Whoa whoa whoa. My brother, we don’t need negative talk like that around here!

 

[Tahr]

Yesterday. Rem Model 7 shooting 52 grn Berger jacketed projectile. mv 3250.

Red Stag 280 yards. Ran 20 yards max down hill.

Red hind neck shot at 150-ish yards.

 

[Shraggs]

Sorry about that.

From my reading, I'm seeing that most shots are relatively short (sub-200). For those that are stretching the .223 closer to that 1800fps range, what are you using for wind calls?

My assumption is a Kestrel and Applied Ballistics. From my observations of the .223 and a 75gr ELD-M or BTHP in non-hunting scenarios, I've noticed that from 300ish on, a really good wind call is critical. At 400, the difference between 5 and 10mph is 7ish". Start adding angles, and such and errors can compound quickly.

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Actually if you read this thing from the beginning, you’re going see many elk killed in the 350-450 range with the same wound profile. There is also one elk killed at 803 yards if memory is working…

 

[BLJ]

Yesterday. Rem Model 7 shooting 52 grn Berger jacketed projectile. mv 3250.

Red Stag 280 yards. Ran 20 yards max down hill.

Red hind neck shot at 150-ish yards.

Any info on that stock?

 

[Tahr]

Any info on that stock?

It's just a Boyd laminate that I took to with a jig-saw. and rasp. Plenty of strength in the laminate and makes a nice light stock.