.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[NoveskeEnjoyer]

Just for fun, guess which deer was shot with a 223/77 tmk, and which one was a 300 win mag/ 180 TTSX. Both shots sub 100 yards.
Dear A entrance
View attachment 632535
Deer A exit
View attachment 632534

Deer B entrance
View attachment 632539
Deer B exit
View attachment 632537
View attachment 632536

A is TMK?

Looks like B made a smaller but more consistent wound channel. TSX flavored monolithic are great for penetration, I've never had an issue. But that TMK is just special in the tissue damage department.

 

[Hoosker Doo]

I was looking at those the other day, I'd like to get a 223 set up for my wife and she needs a compact lefty. Good to hear it'll stabilize 73s, I was wondering about that. Does it actually feel like a compact rifle with the spacer taken out, or just a full size gun with a short stock? I would also get the barrel chopped at 16 to 18 inches, so that'd help too.

I got the apex hunter 110 that has a 20" barrel, so it's basically identical in proportion to my wife's mossberg bantam compact and my brother's Tikka T3x compact. A longer barrel might feel a little different though.
Here's some of my first few shots with the 73 ELD-M. This was just 50 yards. Very consistent grouping and all the holes look nice and round to me. (1" orange stickers)
My brother tried 77 TMK's out of a 9 twist and it wouldn't group and had obvious keyholing and oval shaped holes.

 

[Big_wals]

I got the apex hunter 110 that has a 20" barrel, so it's basically identical in proportion to my wife's mossberg bantam compact and my brother's Tikka T3x compact. A longer barrel might feel a little different though.
Here's some of my first few shots with the 73 ELD-M. This was just 50 yards. Very consistent grouping and all the holes look nice and round to me. (1" orange stickers)View attachment 632720View attachment 632721
My brother tried 77 TMK's out of a 9 twist and it wouldn't group and had obvious keyholing and oval shaped holes.

Thanks for the info. Im still looking around, probably wont buy something for a couple months. But I'll definitely keep that rifle in mind.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

A is TMK?

Looks like B made a smaller but more consistent wound channel. TSX flavored monolithic are great for penetration, I've never had an issue. But that TMK is just special in the tissue damage department.

A is ttsx, B is TMK. The wounds are more similar than I would have guessed, with the Barnes doing slightly more damage on the entrance side, and the tmk more on the exit. Small sample size and anecdotal, but the Barnes deer also made it 125 yards, the tmk deer only made it 5.

 

[xsn10s]

A is ttsx, B is TMK. The wounds are more similar than I would have guessed, with the Barnes doing slightly more damage on the entrance side, and the tmk more on the exit. Small sample size and anecdotal, but the Barnes deer also made it 125 yards, the tmk deer only made it 5.

I'd like to know the final weight of the TTSX.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

I'd like to know the final weight of the TTSX.

No mass was left from that bullet in the deer.

 

[xsn10s]

No mass was left from that bullet in the deer.

Good to know. So the terminal damage most likely came from the added diameter from mushrooming causing more crushing trauma. I posted this thread and your comparison on LRH. The response has been entertaining and amazing lol.

 

[xsn10s]

The negative response without even examining the terminal performance of the 77 TMK of here is well.... I'm not completely ready to give up my other cartridges but this thread is very helpful. To all cartridges.

 

[Formidilosus]

So the terminal damage most likely came from the added diameter from mushrooming causing more crushing trauma.

Negative. Impact velocity causing permanent tearing due to the temporary stretch cavity. The difference is “expanded” diameter is nothing. In actuality, through most of the animal the TMK will have a larger frontal diameter.

 

[amassi]

Good to know. So the terminal damage most likely came from the added diameter from mushrooming causing more crushing trauma. I posted this thread and your comparison on LRH. The response has been entertaining and amazing lol.

I’d bet money hammer bullets were mentioned in the first 10 posts


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[xsn10s]

Negative. Impact velocity causing permanent tearing due to the temporary stretch cavity. The difference is “expanded” diameter is nothing. In actuality, through most of the animal the TMK will have a larger frontal diameter.

I can agree with that. Crushing would play a part, but at 300 WM velocities tearing from the temporary cavity would play a bigger part in the trauma. I'm not the most articulate person while typing.

 

[xsn10s]

I’d bet money hammer bullets were mentioned in the first 10 posts


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I think they were at one point. One of their members tried to come on there and go off topic. It's amazing that people won't consider the terminal performance of the TMK's.

 

[Dirtbag]

I may have posted this on other threads and unsure if how much its been discussed but I do want to make a post regarding some lighter bullets as well. Other posters have certainly made the great case for heavier stuff like the .22 77 TMK, I wanted to reassure anyone you can still have really spectacular (quite surprising in many cases) results with light pills. If you have have a rifle that can't spin heavies or you just want to try light stuff for fun, they flat out work.

55 grain Hornady SP, around 3800fps, .220 swift around hundred yards. 15 yards and down.



55 grain Hornady SP, around 3800fps, .220 swift at 305 yards, Coues deer, DRT.



The cute little 55 grain SP mushroom from the Coues deer. they almost always look like this and stick underneath the skin of the offside on deer. vitals are turned to stew.


52 grain Sierra HPBT Matchking, at 3800, .220 swift somewhere between 100-200 yards. inside were jelly. bullets fragments throughout including offside skin. 60 yards sprint and dead.



53 grain FB Sierra Matchking at 3800, .220 swift around 100 yards frontal. vitals were soup, didnt bother with bullet recovery. tipped over in less than 20 yards.




I'm very confident with .22 centerfires. Speed kills.

 

[JohnDough]

I estimate this deer at 110# live weight. I shot it 1 hour before I left for work, so the autopsy of soft tissue regarding lungs etc. Will have to be verbal. I noted significant blood in the chest cavity upon splitting the sternum. The path through the lung tissue was roughly 1.25-1.5" across. No fragmentation was noted. The damage to the liver was roughly the size of a nickel. Due to the frontal nature of the shot (the deer was very nearly facing me dead on, albeit with his left shoulder and rear him slightly toward me, the projectile's path through the vitals was not as "text book" as a broadside shot which somewhat limits our ability to ascertain its terminal disruption. However, the projectile seems to have a deep and more narrow wound path with sharp demarcation which indicates good velocity through the target as well as sharp edges, as opposed to a round like the RA556B or similar which adopt a more "blob" shape.) The projectile did not seem to directly impact the spine but did pass very near. He immediately locked up and went down and did not move again. Blood at the site was minimal and mainly from his nose/mouth. The rest of the pertinent data follows in a video I will upload.

Weapon: 11.5" sbr
Ammo: 70gr tsx
Range: 95m
Estimated impact velocity based on prior 100m chrono data for this weapon and ammo: 2350fps

 

[The Guide]

I’d bet money hammer bullets were mentioned in the first 10 posts


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4 posts in and there was 25-06 and a 90 grain Hammer mentioned...

 

[Thegman]

I may have posted this on other threads and unsure if how much its been discussed but I do want to make a post regarding some lighter bullets as well. Other posters have certainly made the great case for heavier stuff like the .22 77 TMK, I wanted to reassure anyone you can still have really spectacular (quite surprising in many cases) results with light pills. If you have have a rifle that can't spin heavies or you just want to try light stuff for fun, they flat out work.

55 grain Hornady SP, around 3800fps, .220 swift around hundred yards. 15 yards and down.

View attachment 632960

55 grain Hornady SP, around 3800fps, .220 swift at 305 yards, Coues deer, DRT.

View attachment 632963

The cute little 55 grain SP mushroom from the Coues deer. they almost always look like this and stick underneath the skin of the offside on deer. vitals are turned to stew.
View attachment 632966

52 grain Sierra HPBT Matchking, at 3800, .220 swift somewhere between 100-200 yards. inside were jelly. bullets fragments throughout including offside skin. 60 yards sprint and dead.

View attachment 632969

53 grain FB Sierra Matchking at 3800, .220 swift around 100 yards frontal. vitals were soup, didnt bother with bullet recovery. tipped over in less than 20 yards.

View attachment 632970


I'm very confident with .22 centerfires. Speed kills.

I've heard in other places the Hornady 55SP works really well, have never used on on game though myself. Impressive how well it holds up to even Swift velocity.

 

[Tell]

77gr TMK
2673 impact velocity
He ran for about 5 seconds and dropped. His lungs were soup, and the top of his heart was shredded. I found the bullet in the trampoline/hide.

 

[amassi]

4 posts in and there was 25-06 and a 90 grain Hammer mentioned...

I’m sure they scrubbed it as bullying but I posted 7 cow elk all hanging at a meat processor and got the hammer fan club all fired up about those magic little bullets. When I revealed they were 80g eld m out of a 22-250 no one believed it and I got temporarily banned


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[bbell]

I may have posted this on other threads and unsure if how much its been discussed but I do want to make a post regarding some lighter bullets as well. Other posters have certainly made the great case for heavier stuff like the .22 77 TMK, I wanted to reassure anyone you can still have really spectacular (quite surprising in many cases) results with light pills. If you have have a rifle that can't spin heavies or you just want to try light stuff for fun, they flat out work.

55 grain Hornady SP, around 3800fps, .220 swift around hundred yards. 15 yards and down.

View attachment 632960

55 grain Hornady SP, around 3800fps, .220 swift at 305 yards, Coues deer, DRT.

View attachment 632963

The cute little 55 grain SP mushroom from the Coues deer. they almost always look like this and stick underneath the skin of the offside on deer. vitals are turned to stew.
View attachment 632966

52 grain Sierra HPBT Matchking, at 3800, .220 swift somewhere between 100-200 yards. inside were jelly. bullets fragments throughout including offside skin. 60 yards sprint and dead.

View attachment 632969

53 grain FB Sierra Matchking at 3800, .220 swift around 100 yards frontal. vitals were soup, didnt bother with bullet recovery. tipped over in less than 20 yards.

View attachment 632970


I'm very confident with .22 centerfires. Speed kills.

Thanks for sharing. I have a win pre-64 220 swift, but it’s got a slow twist. Was looking at these, the Sierra 55gr game king #1365, or the 55gr gold dot. Figured I would get about 3800fps out of it. Have you used any other or just the hornady bullet?

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Good to know. So the terminal damage most likely came from the added diameter from mushrooming causing more crushing trauma. I posted this thread and your comparison on LRH. The response has been entertaining and amazing lol.

Don't mess up LRH, I traded a guy a gold ring scope for 500 77gr tmks over there last year.