.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Moose83]

If it didn't make a difference at 200 I doubt that would change at distance.

All I want to do it be able to load up for my 11 year old to get in a lot of reps before hunting season is year. It is his first year hunting big game, so I want to get a good zero and stretch him out on steel.

Im going to sort the brass and see how much matching stuff I have, but when I do start loading im going to do a 10 round group with matching head stamp, and a 10 round group all with 10 different headstamps and and document what happens.

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I should clarify that my mixed brass loads are a very mild charge loaded with a 55gr fmj or sp. I never intended for them to be stretched out very far. I mostly use them for economical practice doing the form drills at 100 yds. In this use case 2 moa is good enough for me. The few times I have stretched them out to 2-300 yds I could keep them on an 8 in plate. Ymmv.

 

[Firth]

I have a ton of 5.56 and .223 brass. Mixed head stamps/ brands. If im loading basic book loads with book OAL, will there be a meaningfull difference in POI for training purposes, shooting steel?

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I do that a lot. As others have said, just don't load hot. Velocity spread will probably be on the high side, but in my case my mixed stamp loads are still better than I can hold for field shooting. Maybe I'd see a difference from an ideal setup prone at longer range.

 

[mtnbound]

I have a ton of 5.56 and .223 brass. Mixed head stamps/ brands. If im loading basic book loads with book OAL, will there be a meaningfull difference in POI for training purposes, shooting steel?

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Hornady, Starline, and Winchester brass in this 20rd group.

 

[grfox92]

Hornady, Starline, and Winchester brass in this 20rd group.
View attachment 1048872

Basic load im guessing?

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[mtnbound]

Basic load im guessing?

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25gr of Staball Match.

 

[mad_angler]

I have questions...

Let's say I have a bull at this angle.

First, I think I should aim at the red dot. Do folks agree?

Second, would you take that shot with a 223? (Lets say 77 grain TMK at under 400 yards)

I personally would not hesitate to take that shot with my 7mm Rem mag. I don't know if I would take it with a 223.

 

[KHntr]

I’ve taken that shot with an 88 ELD m a few times on elk AND moose. It’s my preferred angle.

Broken bones, shredded lungs, bull laying in sight has been the result.

The second moose I shot with an 88 ELD m was pretty much exactly that presentation, at 176 yards. His leg was so broken that while I was breaking him down it would fold over on itself, which makes it real awkward to lift off of the ribcage and separate solo, and get into a game bag.
To be fair though, I didn’t get an exit. Bullet was hung up at the last rib on the opposite side…. On the other hand, there isn’t a bull elk on the planet that comes close to this size….

 

[mt terry d]

Second, would you take that shot with a 223?

C'mon man. 668 pages and it's even a question anymore?
( no even a mention of yardage or bullet)

 

[mad_angler]

Second, would you take that shot with a 223?

C'mon man. 668 pages and it's even a question anymore?
( no even a mention of yardage or bullet)

I've read a lot. But I certainly have not read every page.

I have seen countless pages of dead animals after broadside hits. All those animals are real dead. There seems to be little doubt that the 223 will work in that situation.

I haven't seen pictures of dead animals at this shot angle. (The pictures could be there but I haven't seen them).

 

[mt terry d]

Fair enough.

KHntr basically summed it all up a couple posts ago.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Second, would you take that shot with a 223?

C'mon man. 668 pages and it's even a question anymore?
( no even a mention of yardage or bullet)

Asking the important questions… without knowing the range or the bullet, it’s hard to say if that’s a great choice.

But, that does look like the right spot to aim. And assuming a good custom load pushing a 77-grain TMK within 400 yards, I would expect good results based on what I have seen in this thread. I have zero firsthand experience and am just here to learn for the future.

 

[mad_angler]

Sorry.. let's add more definition...

I agree with the assumptions above: 77 grain TMK (or similar bullet). Range 400 yards and under.

 

[KHntr]

*sigh*….
This one was only 352 yards, so not quite 400. And not a 77 TMK, another 88 ELD m.

Dead square facing me down in a little valley below us. Turned his head a bit to look at the other bull with him when the trigger broke and ended up slipping the bullet under his left ear into his spine. 14 or 16” of vertebrae crushed. Whack flop. Not much of a surprise at the result, but the bull beside him soaked up 3 rounds of 300wsm 165 TSX’s before he gave up. First one quartering in, second broadside through shoulders, third one quartering away through offside shoulder. (Or some variation thereof, I was paying more attention to my bull, not the firefight going on beside me)

 

[KHntr]

Watched him gallop towards me for several hundred yards coming to a cow call. He hit the brakes at 109 yards and I laced him at the leading edge of his shoulder. Exit at the last rib. He hopped on three legs and turned quartering away, and I always figure that the shooting is the fun part so zapped him again. In at the back of the ribs (2nd or 3rd, can’t remember exactly now) and out through the point of his offside shoulder. Maybe 4 seconds from first shot to on the ground.

88 ELD m.

 

[KHntr]

152 yards (151 maybe?). Broadside, both shoulders crushed.
Whack flop and disappeared at the shot, behind the log he was standing behind. Was laying where he’d been standing though, so don’t think he went very far……..

88 ELD m all under the hide on the offside.

 

[KHntr]

This years bulls don’t count on this thread, as they were 88’d ala 22 DontNeedMore.
However, 101 yard 6pt quartering in, and 311 yard tripalm trotting broadside.

The infamous Rut Crazed Bull Elk steel plated shoulder blade pictured.

 

[KHntr]

This one counts though. 15 yr old son of one of my best buds. Bud never got to see his son kill his first elk, but I had the privilege of being there with him.

He was a touch nervous and pulled the shot a bit forward on this quartering in elk at 202 yards, but the 88 still had her on the ground in less than 40 yards and 5 seconds.

That 88 exited at the front edge of the offside shoulder.

 

[Formidilosus]

I have questions...

Let's say I have a bull at this angle.

First, I think I should aim at the red dot. Do folks agree?

Second, would you take that shot with a 223? (Lets say 77 grain TMK at under 400 yards)

I personally would not hesitate to take that shot with my 7mm Rem mag. I don't know if I would take it with a 223.

View attachment 1049306

There are 20+ elk, plus 4-5 moose with that exact shot in here. It’s total none issue- except for the meat damage that results from a TMK hitting bone.

 

[KHntr]

Gotta forgive the shitty camera man, he was more interested in watching the bear than he was filming.
That, and it was fairly brisk out at -15*C.

 

[KHntr]

I've read a lot. But I certainly have not read every page.

I have seen countless pages of dead animals after broadside hits. All those animals are real dead. There seems to be little doubt that the 223 will work in that situation.

I haven't seen pictures of dead animals at this shot angle. (The pictures could be there but I haven't seen them).

My preference is for a quartering shot, be it coming in or going away. I don’t hesitate on either of those with a 223/88 combo. I’d add the 77 TMK to that as well, but I don’t have enough stuff killed with the 77 to really comment on it. I’ve only killed one big buck (and some coyotes) with a 77 TMK so far, but it was quartering and his shoulder was crushed.

The only thing I wouldn’t expect to do is drive through a full paunch and reach vitals, but to be fair I had a 168 gr TSX from a 300 RUM not make it to vitals shooting down on a straightaway elk at 60 yards. And I fully expected for that one to come out the brisket.
If I was of a need to take that hard of an angle of a shot (with ANY bullet/cartridge combo) I would adjust my aim and shoot with the intent to break hips and pelvis or spine and then follow up with another shot after that to whatever was going to finish the job.