.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[fwafwow]

lol I can’t pm for another few days

You can pay to skip the waiting period, and asking someone to PM you because you haven't been here long enough probably violates the rules. Your prior posts also sound very scammer-ish. So, unless you want this thread to turn into a meme fest, or to get another thread, you may want to provide some bona fides. (Fingers crossed...)

 

[Hurley88]

You guys want factory threaded 16" stainless Tikka's?
If you do make some noise, Im litigating..

Jake

Of course we do! I saw the new flared/threaded ones and personally just saw less opportunity to mess with length & threading…something like the PBB Tikka Hybrid contour where it hits 0.710–0.750” then stays that throughout the length would be better for people that monkey with their rifles more. Thread that at 20” and a guy can do 18” or 16” on their own…

All that said though, I’d scoop up several 16” threaded stainless barrels if they existed. But not the entire rifle, I have too many as is.

 

[Kaleb]

Of course we do! I saw the new flared/threaded ones and personally just saw less opportunity to mess with length & threading…something like the PBB Tikka Hybrid contour where it hits 0.710–0.750” then stays that throughout the length would be better for people that monkey with their rifles more. Thread that at 20” and a guy can do 18” or 16” on their own…

All that said though, I’d scoop up several 16” threaded stainless barrels if they existed. But not the entire rifle, I have too many as is.

Yea but he's asking about them being 16". No need to monkey with them they'll be ready to go. I love the idea because while I appreciate the efforts those 20" threaded barrels are a swing and a miss for a lot of folks. Kinda on the short side if not suppressed and a little on the long side for suppressed.

 

[Hurley88]

100% agree, like I said I’d be wanting to buy several. But I’ve also noticed a plethora of other suggestions in response to his post, so from a wider perspective the 20” “monodiameter” idea could appeal to a wider audience. Not like it’s likely to happen though, I get that.

If they are going to be threaded from the factory, 16” is better than 20”. So it’s a heck yes from me

 

[wind gypsy]

20” with a 7” can is a bit much.. but with the OGs and airlocks and such of today, 20” with moderate cases like 223, ARC, BR variants, GT, is kind of a nice place to be.

 

[Hurley88]

Good point. Wouldn’t want less than 20” for 6ARC or 6.5CM personally

 

[Kaleb]

I could be mistaken but are the newer threaded options not 20" already? So those wanting longer barrels they're already available.

It seemed to me he was gauging interest on how many would prefer shorter barrels not currently offered with threads. Not a huge deal to me but not everyone has a place 6miles down the road that can cut/thread for $80 and I understand that. $30-$40 shipping each way and $125-$150 for threads if having to mail it out would add up. Like the gentleman above mentioned we might prefer 16 or prefer 18 but 16 is a heck of a lot better than 20 if you prefer a shorter barrel. Since they already offer longer threaded barrels a 16" option would be great. I hope they can get enough interest to do them and sell enough to make it a regular offering. Seems it would be good for everyone.

 

[nm.otter]

16" is a pretty decent fit for the .223 powder capacity.

 

[packgoatguy]

Three cow elk harvested in the past two weeks using the 223/77tmk

Rifle:
Uberlite StraightPull AR15 (base rifle weighs 2.5lbs) 4lbs including scope/suppressor/mag
MV 2750fps
SWFA ultralight 2.5-10x32 BDC
JK Suppressor

Elk 1
110 yards, 1 shot
Conditions: thick timber, downhill shot.
Impact point; high shoulder/spine/backstrap
Dropped and rolled/slid 50 yards. Still breathing, but incapacitated when we got to it.

Elk 2
325 yards, 1 shot
Conditions: open high saddle, heavy wind gusts and blowing snow. Elk was standing broadside amongst other bedded and feeding elk.
Impact point; center body, liver/stomach
2 inches behind the lungs. (Bad wind call)
Herd spooked at the shot, and the cow followed for about 100 yards and then stopped just beyond the rise. Eventually laid down before it bled out internally. No blood trail. Bullet did not leave the far side of the stomach.

Elk 3
100 yards, 1 shot
Conditions: thick timber, steep hillside. Elk was standing, slightly quartered away amongst other bedded elk.
Impact point; high shoulder/high lung.
It ran 89 yards (with a good blood trail) and then fell (tried to get back on its feet several times). It took 20-ish minutes to fully expire.


Overall, none of the shots were "ideal" but still resulted in a notched tag. I've seen similar results with bigger calibers.

No exits. Only blood trail was #3.

Comparison for Elk 1: Earlier this season my daughter shot a bull with a 6.5cm and got high shoulder/backstrap (missed the lung). The result was very near identical to that if the Elk 1 in this writeup. (Dropped at the shot, and was found incapacitated but breathing after it rolled/slid a ways down the hill).

Comparison for Elk 2. last season my nephew took a cow with a 6.5cm and hit a bit far back. Got liver/stomach... but one tiny bullet fragment went into the lung. It went about 200 yards (just out if sight) and we found it dead.
Many years ago my son shot a cow with a 28nos 195gr berger. 3 shots mid body in the stomach... no exits. The elk remained standing for quite some time. Was able to hop a low fence about 20 yards just out of sight. Even a bigger caliber doesn't compensate for a bad shot.

Elk 3 is the odd one. The lung damage wasn't severe, but was more than just a nick. She was coughing blood and the blood trail was wide and obvious. It surprised me that it took so long to bleed out. However, I'm not ready to attribute this result to the 77tmk. If the impact point had been an inch or two lower, I would have expected lights out in a minute or two at most.

By comparison, one of my boys shot a cow many years ago with a 300wm, 425 yards, factory 200eldx. Impact point was classic behind front shoulder, but bullet hit the rib and 3/4 of it went 90 degrees through the diaphragm and liver, and 1/4 of it went straight through the lung. The wounded elk traveled with the herd for several hundred yards before slowing and then toppled over. Time from shot to expiration was about 5 min. Once we backtracked the trail, we did not find any blood along her route. In that case, even with good shot placement, the result wasn't ideal.

See my later post about elk number 4:

Post in thread '.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.' https://rokslide.com/forums/threads...n-goat-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/post-4492350

 

[WhatToHunt]

Finally adding a contribution. 110 pound whitetail doe shot with 77 gr TMK Bone Frog 5.56 ammo out of 20" suppressed T3x. 150 yard shot, impact velocity around 2405, she went about 20 yards with a great deal of blood thanks to the substantial exit hole, although no tracking was really required. Onside lung was a bit ripped and the offside lung was shredded. I may update the post if there's anything worthwhile upon skinning.




Entrance:




Exit:

 

[RockAndSage]

16" is a pretty decent fit for the .223 powder capacity.

For some reason, this comment just caused me to realize what may have been my biggest shift in perspective on this - barrel length and velocity.

I used to be a "velocity above all" guy for almost any given rifle cartridge - the flatter the arc and the higher the impact velocity, the better. Never had a problem with .223 bullets and big game, but I did want a laser-beam of a trajectory. Pretty sure these ideas came from hunting as a kid, before range finders and really good bullets were the norm, and definitely before hunting suppressed was a thing. A 22" .223 would have been common sense.

But in seeing that these tipped match bullets are absolutely capable of killing deer and elk at distances far beyond what I'm personally capable of right now, and just how much better our range-finding and optics have gotten, my 16" ARs have become suspiciously long. And .223 bolt guns at 16" seem to be a pretty good sweet-spot. It's a pretty interesting perspective shift to experience.

 

[nm.otter]

I suspect case capacity to bore area ratio may also help predict (advisable) minimum barrel length.

 

[RockAndSage]

I suspect case capacity to bore area ratio may also help predict (advisable) minimum barrel length.

For sure. If that was in response to my comment, what I was saying was within the context of the max distances I can ethically take a shot at, which I'd generally limit to about 300-350yds in most cases, and impact velocities at those distances.

 

[nm.otter]

There's an inflection point where longer doesn't equal faster (no more powder to burn) and a less-well-defined one where removing an additional inch removes more FPS than the last few did.

 

[Poe]

For some reason, this comment just caused me to realize what may have been my biggest shift in perspective on this - barrel length and velocity.

I used to be a "velocity above all" guy for almost any given rifle cartridge - the flatter the arc and the higher the impact velocity, the better. Never had a problem with .223 bullets and big game, but I did want a laser-beam of a trajectory. Pretty sure these ideas came from hunting as a kid, before range finders and really good bullets were the norm, and definitely before hunting suppressed was a thing. A 22" .223 would have been common sense.

But in seeing that these tipped match bullets are absolutely capable of killing deer and elk at distances far beyond what I'm personally capable of right now, and just how much better our range-finding and optics have gotten, my 16" ARs have become suspiciously long. And .223 bolt guns at 16" seem to be a pretty good sweet-spot. It's a pretty interesting perspective shift to experience.

I have been tempted to cut some of my rifles down and I have a 243 that I am still tempted to cut down for a truck gun. However being in Canada suppressors are a no go and I am not hiking through the mountains so for general hunting I would rather get a little bit more velocity and not worry about cutting my guns down. For the people that can use a suppressor the short barrels make perfect sense

 

[Lionheart]

I suspect case capacity to bore area ratio may also help predict (advisable) minimum barrel length.

Could you expand on that thought?

 

[nm.otter]

Case capacity determines the volume of powder. Barrel length times bore area determines the volume where gases can expand and push on the bullet. If we divide case capacity by bore area, we get something related to barrel length.

 

[wyosam]

For some reason, this comment just caused me to realize what may have been my biggest shift in perspective on this - barrel length and velocity.

I used to be a "velocity above all" guy for almost any given rifle cartridge - the flatter the arc and the higher the impact velocity, the better. Never had a problem with .223 bullets and big game, but I did want a laser-beam of a trajectory. Pretty sure these ideas came from hunting as a kid, before range finders and really good bullets were the norm, and definitely before hunting suppressed was a thing. A 22" .223 would have been common sense.

But in seeing that these tipped match bullets are absolutely capable of killing deer and elk at distances far beyond what I'm personally capable of right now, and just how much better our range-finding and optics have gotten, my 16" ARs have become suspiciously long. And .223 bolt guns at 16" seem to be a pretty good sweet-spot. It's a pretty interesting perspective shift to experience.

Same, though I hunt with way less efficient bullets (I prefer monos). I was building shorter rifles in anticipation of getting a suppressor with 20” barrels. Then I got my first can, and immediately realized that I didn’t want to hunt with a rifle that long. So I took a stainless 6.5cm barrel I had pulled from a donor action to my smith and had him cut and thread at 16.25”. Ahhh, so much better. Bought a 16” 223. Having an 18” Dasher barrel spun up, that will get a triple 6 for same OAL. Give up some velocity, but will still be fast enough for bullet performance and the ranges I shoot game anyway. My 7-08 Ackley barrel I’ll leave at 20 if I have a hunt that might need more reach.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Deadspace]

Three cow elk harvested in the past two weeks using the 223/77tmk

Rifle:
Uberlite StraightPull AR15 (base rifle weighs 2.5lbs) 4lbs including scope/suppressor/mag
MV 2750fps
SWFA ultralight 2.5-10x32 BDC
JK Suppressor

Elk 1
110 yards, 1 shot
Conditions: thick timber, downhill shot.
Impact point; high shoulder/spine/backstrap
Dropped and rolled/slid 50 yards. Still breathing, but incapacitated when we got to it.

Elk 2
325 yards, 1 shot
Conditions: open high saddle, heavy wind gusts and blowing snow. Elk was standing broadside amongst other bedded and feeding elk.
Impact point; center body, liver/stomach
2 inches behind the lungs. (Bad wind call)
Herd spooked at the shot, and the cow followed for about 100 yards and then stopped just beyond the rise. Eventually laid down before it bled out internally. No blood trail. Bullet did not leave the far side of the stomach.

Elk 3
100 yards, 1 shot
Conditions: thick timber, steep hillside. Elk was standing, slightly quartered away amongst other bedded elk.
Impact point; high shoulder/high lung.
It ran 89 yards (with a good blood trail) and then fell (tried to get back on its feet several times). It took 20-ish minutes to fully expire.


Overall, none of the shots were "ideal" but still resulted in a notched tag. I've seen similar results with bigger calibers.

No exits. Only blood trail was #3.

Comparison for Elk 1: Earlier this season my daughter shot a bull with a 6.5cm and got high shoulder/backstrap (missed the lung). The result was very near identical to that if the Elk 1 in this writeup. (Dropped at the shot, and was found incapacitated but breathing after it rolled/slid a ways down the hill).

Comparison for Elk 2. last season my nephew took a cow with a 6.5cm and hit a bit far back. Got liver/stomach... but one tiny bullet fragment went into the lung. It went about 200 yards (just out if sight) and we found it dead.
Many years ago my son shot a cow with a 28nos 195gr berger. 3 shots mid body in the stomach... no exits. The elk remained standing for quite some time. Was able to hop a low fence about 20 yards just out of sight. Even a bigger caliber doesn't compensate for a bad shot.

Elk 3 is the odd one. The lung damage wasn't severe, but was more than just a nick. She was coughing blood and the blood trail was wide and obvious. It surprised me that it took so long to bleed out. However, I'm not ready to attribute this result to the 77tmk. If the impact point had been an inch or two lower, I would have expected lights out in a minute or two at most.

By comparison, one of my boys shot a cow many years ago with a 300wm, 425 yards, factory 200eldx. Impact point was classic behind front shoulder, but bullet hit the rib and 3/4 of it went 90 degrees through the diaphragm and liver, and 1/4 of it went straight through the lung. The wounded elk traveled with the herd for several hundred yards before slowing and then toppled over. Time from shot to expiration was about 5 min. Once we backtracked the trail, we did not find any blood along her route. In that case, even with good shot placement, the result wasn't ideal.

Even after seeing this in person a few times, I’m always amazed at how devastating these 77TMKs are. I can’t wait to see how destructive the 88s are. Well done man!

 

[packgoatguy]

Even after seeing this in person a few times, I’m always amazed at how devastating these 77TMKs are. I can’t wait to see how destructive the 88s are. Well done man!

Thanks! But I can't take all the credit, one was my 10 yr old daughter's first big game animal, and the other was my son's elk.