.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[jonandy]

Ok, so at one point I had read all posts, dang this thread keeps growing!! Thanks for all the info and contributions!

Looking for info, has anyone tried new cases made for 5.56?

Shell Shock Technologies - Your Next Generation Ammo Source

Discover Shell Shock Technologies & their line of Shell Tech Ammo with innovative NAS³ case technology. Offering Next Generation Ammunition. Learn more today!

shellshocktechnologies.com

Specifically talking about the ones here. From what I gather they handle higher pressure and therefore approx 200 fps more, longer case life, better lubricity than brass, lighter than brass, no stretch, magnetic pickup! Seems great. I would love to hear if anyone has tried them. Seems like the extra fps would make these a win win for the 223/5.56

 

[Thegman]

Ok, so at one point I had read all posts, dang this thread keeps growing!! Thanks for all the info and contributions!

Looking for info, has anyone tried new cases made for 5.56?

Shell Shock Technologies - Your Next Generation Ammo Source

Discover Shell Shock Technologies & their line of Shell Tech Ammo with innovative NAS³ case technology. Offering Next Generation Ammunition. Learn more today!

shellshocktechnologies.com

Specifically talking about the ones here. From what I gather they handle higher pressure and therefore approx 200 fps more, longer case life, better lubricity than brass, lighter than brass, no stretch, magnetic pickup! Seems great. I would love to hear if anyone has tried them. Seems like the extra fps would make these a win win for the 223/5.56

There's a bit of info on them from @Trackselk in the Ultralight-Ultralight thread. He's wrung them out a bit. So far they haven't worked well in the Solo actions, but might work well in a traditional bolt rifle...TBD. Seem to be mostly a one and done case at this point.

 

[Trackselk]

There's a bit of info on them from @Trackselk in the Ultralight-Ultralight thread. He's wrung them out a bit. So far they haven't worked well in the Solo actions, but might work well in a traditional bolt rifle...TBD. Seem to be mostly a one and done case at this point.

Yup, reports say they're fine in gas-guns and bolt actions, but they jam up strait pull AR's. You might get 2 firings in a loose chamber, but I doubt it. The shoulder angle is off, which makes them .001" over Sammi max length from the get go. I'm hoping it's just a bad batch.
They are lasting for several reloads on my subsonic (small game) recipe. Just clean and reload, zero sizing which is nice.

 

[ezwy]

Ok, so at one point I had read all posts, dang this thread keeps growing!! Thanks for all the info and contributions!

Looking for info, has anyone tried new cases made for 5.56?

Shell Shock Technologies - Your Next Generation Ammo Source

Discover Shell Shock Technologies & their line of Shell Tech Ammo with innovative NAS³ case technology. Offering Next Generation Ammunition. Learn more today!

shellshocktechnologies.com

Specifically talking about the ones here. From what I gather they handle higher pressure and therefore approx 200 fps more, longer case life, better lubricity than brass, lighter than brass, no stretch, magnetic pickup! Seems great. I would love to hear if anyone has tried them. Seems like the extra fps would make these a win win for the 223/5.56

Hard to tell how case life is if no one I know of has successfully reloaded them..... I have some loaded by phantom defense. they were loaded fast, but not significantly faster than a worked up reload in brass. I thin shell shock was selling special reloading components in the past but not now. I'd like to hear more experience too. They didn't like to eject in my ultralight, but might be the answer to non reloader bolt or gas gun guys.

 

[Thegman]

Does anyone have a velocity and charge weight they can share for 16" Tikka factory barrel with 77tmk and accurate 2520?

Not from a Tikka, but a 16" barrel: With a newer lot, I've gone up to 25.5 grains @ 2.28", LC brass and CCI 450. Velocity seems to be around 2,650 - 2,700.

I mention "newer lot" because I think AA 2520 burn rate can vary quite a bit. That's probably compounded by AA getting it from different sources over the years. With my old batch, I could go a little higher without seeing any "signs" of pressure, for what that's worth. That's measuring case expansion, reading the primer tea leaves and noting case/primer pocket life.

 

[Skydog]

I'm in my early 30s, and I've been hunting my whole life, but nothing serious like y'all do here. I sort of just accepted all the conventional fuddlore from mainstream forums and YouTube and didn't think much past it. I've been shooting a .30-06 since I was 14 because that's what I was told was needed to anchor 120-lb Deep South whitetails.

Don't feel bad...when I first started deer hunting one of my mentors tried to convince me that I needed a .300 Win Mag to kill Southeastern whitetails. This advice was from a guy who owned a gun store, had a lot of experience with hunting, guns, handloading, etc. When I ignored his advice and opted for a .270 Win instead (I'd been reading a lot of Jack O' Connor's stuff), he warned me that I would be wounding/losing a lot of deer with a .270 and that if I was hell bent on hunting with it, then I should at least use a minimum of a 150 grain bullet and stay away from the 130s. What was funny was that he got me into his hunting club after I bought that .270 from his shop. I killed two deer that year (my first two ever with a rifle) on our lease using that .270 with cheap 130 grain Winchester white box ammo. Both were one shot kills, both deer ran less than 20 yards. That was a long time ago and I have no idea whatever happened to that guy. But I have often thought of his "expert" advice while reading through the .223/6mm kill threads on this site.

 

[FB Trout]

Ok, so at one point I had read all posts, dang this thread keeps growing!! Thanks for all the info and contributions!

Looking for info, has anyone tried new cases made for 5.56?

Shell Shock Technologies - Your Next Generation Ammo Source

Discover Shell Shock Technologies & their line of Shell Tech Ammo with innovative NAS³ case technology. Offering Next Generation Ammunition. Learn more today!

shellshocktechnologies.com

Specifically talking about the ones here. From what I gather they handle higher pressure and therefore approx 200 fps more, longer case life, better lubricity than brass, lighter than brass, no stretch, magnetic pickup! Seems great. I would love to hear if anyone has tried them. Seems like the extra fps would make these a win win for the 223/5.56

I’ve loaded both 77 TMKs and 80 ElDx in these cases. As stated, they are loadable, not reloadable. I’ve loaded them to, well, let’s say 223 AI velocities out of Tikka with an 18” barrel with XBR 8208. No case prep, other than a little Hornady One Shot on the case mouth/neck. They do have lower SD and ES than my other brass handloads, which may reflective of the neck concentricity achieved by the stamped manufacturing process. Regardless, I like them….

 

[mt terry d]

My wife is starting to get suspicious and jealous since I've been glued to my phone the past few nights, lol.

When she sees the CC bill for what you're going to get she'll wish
you were surfing porn.

 

[Pharmseller]

I thought 7mm-08 was for women and kids.




P

 

[jonandy]

I’ve loaded both 77 TMKs and 80 ElDx in these cases. As stated, they are loadable, not reloadable. I’ve loaded them to, well, let’s say 223 AI velocities out of Tikka with an 18” barrel with XBR 8208. No case prep, other than a little Hornady One Shot on the case mouth/neck. They do have lower SD and ES than my other brass handloads, which may reflective of the neck concentricity achieved by the stamped manufacturing process. Regardless,

Yup, reports say they're fine in gas-guns and bolt actions, but they jam up strait pull AR's. You might get 2 firings in a loose chamber, but I doubt it. The shoulder angle is off, which makes them .001" over Sammi max length from the get go. I'm hoping it's just a bad batch.
They are lasting for several reloads on my subsonic (small game) recipe. Just clean and reload, zero sizing which is nice.

does it take special equipment to reload them?

 

[Trackselk]

does it take special equipment to reload them?

No, but you'll only be able to load them once above about 2500fps in my experience. The two piece design pulls in two of you try to resize them.

 

[packgoatguy]

I stumbled across this site by accident a few weeks ago while researching 7mm-08 terminal performance because I want a more compact rifle with less recoil that I would want to shoot more often. I saw a comment from Mr. Form talking in depth about 6.5 CM vs. 7mm-08, which led me down a rabbit hole to here. I'm 50 pages and 1,000 comments in with 9,000 more comments to go. My wife is starting to get suspicious and jealous since I've been glued to my phone the past few nights, lol.

I'm in my early 30s, and I've been hunting my whole life, but nothing serious like y'all do here. I sort of just accepted all the conventional fuddlore from mainstream forums and YouTube and didn't think much past it. I've been shooting a .30-06 since I was 14 because that's what I was told was needed to anchor 120-lb Deep South whitetails.

Anyway, this isn't a particularly noteworthy comment, but I just wanted to express my gratitude for totally changing my viewpoint and educating me. I still have a lot to learn, but knowing that my dream of a short, handy, mild-recoiling rifle that's capable of ethically harvesting big game is a reality is exciting.

If you are interested in short, handy, mild-recoiling hunting rifles, you should check out the ultralight ultralight (ULUL) thread and the 2-3 lb 223 rifles being built there.

T

Thread 'Ultralight Ultralight Rifles'

Oct 9, 2023

I posted some info on the 77TMK thread about my experience on trying out the 77TMK on this black bear. There was some interest in the rifle used so I'm posting some info about the whys and hows on some of what I've put together over the last year or so.



I've been carrying lightweight bolt rifles around the mountains for a long time and have thought about how to make the lightest rifle I could, just to see what's possible, if nothing else. The lightest bolt rifle I've had was a 4# 9oz 308. That was pretty costly and there didn't seem to be a way to get much lighter without a...

• Thegman
• Replies: 4,665
• Forum: Firearms

• 
• 
• 

 

[jonandy]

No, but you'll only be able to load them once above about 2500fps in my experience. The two piece design pulls in two of you try to resize them.

Thanks for the info!

 

[JohnDough]

Just made the leap too. From 270 to 223, cant wait to see how this turn out this fall.

I honestly don't understand the issue with caliber and deer. They are not magical. If you destroy the heart and/or lungs, they will die like any other thing. With deer, I find no matter what round I use, they will run 80-120 yards, and pile up dead. Heart turned to mush and a big hole through the lungs. UNLESS the bullet passes within 2-3" of the CNS, in which case they pile up and bleed out before they recover to stand.

 

[Trackselk]

Anyone happen to have some 79 grain DRT bullets they want to sell? They've been out of stock forever and I was hoping to get at least some to start load development. Figured this might be the best place to ask anywhere...

 

[JohnDough]

The best 223 bullet for penetration I have ever seen was the nosler 64 gr trophy bonded bear claw out of the FBI duty load. It is barrier blind and just keeps going.

It looks like a little hard cast 45-70 the way it penetrates everything and never turns right or left.

I would shoot elk with it no problem.

I'm using the 64gr boat tail Federal version of same. has a bit better BC. I am anxious to test it this year on some deer to compare to other stuff I've used. I find it to be very accurate out of my 11.5.

Pulled projectile

25 and 160 yard water jug expansion test from 11.5".

100 yard zero confirmation target with 11.5"

 

[JohnDough]

That's some good info on that bullet.

However, the point of this whole thread is that if your shooting animals with a small bullet and want them to die quickly, it needs to fragment and create larger wound channel throughout the chest cavity.

A 2"- 4" wound cavity that only goes to the opposite side of the rib cage is better than a .75" wound cavity that goes all the way through and continues on to use its enrgy to put a hole in the dirt behind the animal.

I disagree. I have used 70gr TSX as well as 62gr Controlled Chaos and with identical hits, the deer do identical things. If I place the round through the heart/lung area, the 70gr TSX is going to give me a decent blood trail and a 80-120m run. The 62gr Controlled Chaos will give me the same thing, minus a blood trail, as only the "un-expanded" arse of the bullet leaves the deer.

 

[KHntr]

I disagree. I have used 70gr TSX as well as 62gr Controlled Chaos and with identical hits, the deer do identical things. If I place the round through the heart/lung area, the 70gr TSX is going to give me a decent blood trail and a 80-120m run. The 62gr Controlled Chaos will give me the same thing, minus a blood trail, as only the "un-expanded" arse of the bullet leaves the deer.

With a more frangible bullet you likely will have much shorter runs, if any at all.

For context, I’ve only used/seen used on deer/black bears the 45/50/53/55 tsx, the 62 ttsx, the 50 gmx, the 40 and 50 vmax, the 64 psp, 75 Amax, 77 tmk, and 88 eld m.
The 45 tsx at 3000+ impact velocity kills pretty quickly, but still not as fast as the 75 Amax/77 tmk/88 eld m. The other mono’s are decidedly slower killers in my experience.

 

[JohnDough]

With a more frangible bullet you likely will have much shorter runs, if any at all.

For context, I’ve only used/seen used on deer/black bears the 45/50/53/55 tsx, the 62 ttsx, the 50 gmx, the 40 and 50 vmax, the 64 psp, 75 Amax, 77 tmk, and 88 eld m.
The 45 tsx at 3000+ impact velocity kills pretty quickly, but still not as fast as the 75 Amax/77 tmk/88 eld m. The other mono’s are decidedly slower killers in my experience.

I've used MK318 SOST to same effect. 77gr TMK is trash in any gun I've owned, so dunno about it. 77TMK is the only factory 5.56 loading I've found for this class of bullet, and Black Hills normally hits sub 2moa 10 shot groups all day in my SBR and other guns, but 77TMK is just trash 3moa or so from half a dozen guns. I don't mess with it anymore, preferring better bullets. Further, if I take that against a barrier like a windshield or something, it's going to come apart like confetti, so it's a 1-trick pony (killing things a little faster, per the internet of course) that shoots poorly, so I haven't T&E'ed it beyond the accuracy stage as it holds no interest for me. I was tempted to try the .gov issued version of it, but decided against it.

 

[packgoatguy]

I've used MK318 SOST to same effect. 77gr TMK is trash in any gun I've owned, so dunno about it. 77TMK is the only factory 5.56 loading I've found for this class of bullet, and Black Hills normally hits sub 2moa 10 shot groups all day in my SBR and other guns, but 77TMK is just trash 3moa or so from half a dozen guns. I don't mess with it anymore, preferring better bullets. Further, if I take that against a barrier like a windshield or something, it's going to come apart like confetti, so it's a 1-trick pony (killing things a little faster, per the internet of course) that shoots poorly, so I haven't T&E'ed it beyond the accuracy stage as it holds no interest for me. I was tempted to try the .gov issued version of it, but decided against it.

77tmk has worked well in all of the lightweight ARs I've built. MOA or better. 2750fps in a 16 inch barrel. But I always use a 1/8 twist or faster. What barrel twists have you tried?