.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Idaho4x4Bronco]

This thread is filled with greatness.

 

[Juan_ID]

Not quite sure how I feel at the moment…
View attachment 311762

Now I know how I feel… Snag em up!

Sierra 22cal 77gr TMK

Product Information Caliber: 22cal Bullet Diameter: 0.224” Bullet Weight: 77 Grains OAL: 1.072" Bullet Style: Tipped MatchKing Boat Tail G1 BC: 0.420 Part Number: 7177 or 7177C Quantity: 100ct or 500ct

www.bluecollarreloading.com

 

[BigNate]

Thanks, I was quicker this time!

 

[aschuler]

Cheap practice! They blow predators to shit too

View attachment 311843

I'm running 75eldms in my 223 as well. What's your COAL?

 

[woods89]

Change of subject kinda but who has a hunt or hunts planned this year using 223/556? I have an Antelope and Mule Deer tag this year along with Whitetail in my home state. Looking forward to more pics and updates

It'll be with me for firearms deer here. I have a private land spot to shoot does only and shot opportunities are fairly easy to come by so I can't imagine I won't get to try it out.

Still going to take the big horsepower elk hunting, i.e., the 6.5 Cheater Mag............

 

[amassi]

I'm in a quandry... I want to try the .223 Rem for Mule Deer in CA's D-14, and I know it would work fine for the place I have in mind because timber limits the distances. But... there are also Bears there, and just because I've never taken one, AND never taken a deer with .223 Rem yet... my thought process is:

Well... I supposed I'd better take something with me where I know for sure from lots of historical data that it should work no problem. ... Then... after I've finally taken a Bear, any Bear, and gotten that cherry out of the way... I'd then totally be down to risk walkin' around with the lesser caliber.

I may still end up saying EFF-it and bringing the .223 Rem w Barnes TSX. I also happen to have scored a box of 70gr TTSX a year or so ago. And I see today that I can't find this same projectile listed. So meh... I dunno... might even mess-around and load-up some of those 70gr's to see what kinda havoc they can wreak!

Nope and not because of the possibility of a bear since 223 is clearly capable of killing a deer/bear combo.

Let's be real this thread really pertains to 2-3 bullets that create impressive wounding due to their design and... none are monos. The 70 tsx out of a 223 is probably the worst possible bullet to achieve the results you'll see in this thread. If your set on shooting your 223 in CA maybe one of the lighter ttsx to get some semblance of velocity.

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[TheGDog]

Nope and not because of the possibility of a bear since 223 is clearly capable of killing a deer/bear combo.

Let's be real this thread really pertains to 2-3 bullets that create impressive wounding due to their design and... none are monos. The 70 tsx out of a 223 is probably the worst possible bullet to achieve the results you'll see in this thread. If your set on shooting your 223 in CA maybe one of the lighter ttsx to get some semblance of velocity.

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Ok then I'd likely just use those same Remington HTP's @64gr that I used on the Bobcat. Was a bit much on a Bobcat I thought, but the Taxi took care of it no problem for the mount. I feel pretty certain those 64gr should likely do in a bear pretty quick with a not-too-rushed shot. Most of our Bears out here aren't THAT darn big anyway. But even the big ones, I don't imagine them wanting to turn it into a fight if 1200-1600 ft lbs of .223 Rem womps em into their chest at all. I know they might run, but I feel confident I'd deliver the kinda shot that'd make em run away. But I do know that critters sometimes inadvertently run at ya after shot and panic'd ... had that happen with a yote that didn't know where I was up above them on a slope! On the beginning of death run after my shot dumps her and rolls her over... she gets back up and oddly runs towards the base of the hill I'm up upon, as I had shot down at her when she protruded enough in front of a Greasewood in front of a large stone below me. She was looking at my Mojo motion decoy and toward the Johnny Stewart GS2 eCaller.

Was real surprised by that shot, it apparently deflected significantly from touching a bit of the thin branch. That was a 55gr DRT Penetrating Frangible HP copper jacket & compressed copper powder inside the jacket. I wanted to make sure I had frangibles this time so if it hit there was supposed to be a greater chance of them going right down and not running, and possibly not even exit hole. I aimed at just under shoulder blade coming at her from up and back and behind her on that slope.

I take the shot... BOOM I see the yote to the ground and role over and quickly get back to eats feet and attempt to run back towards me! As I'm trying to now draw a 2nd bead after jacking a new round when BOOM! The hunting partner I was with sealed the deal with a blast from his 12ga shotgun of just like a 18" or 20" barrel length. The yote went ass over end at his shot like an anvil dropped on her head.

Upon walking up I see this massive looking more shallow looking kind of wound area... maybe 3-4" opening in hide over back of hips?? Seemed like too much deflection to be possible considering how close she was to that thin branch that partially obscured her.


So at first I thought that was from his shotgun blast. But upon skinning and inspecting the difference in wounds and finding a hole thru rib and thru cranium near maxila and cracking thru some of jawbone/mandible and that hole went thru some of brain case. and his shotgun I think... is just a home defense shotgun so it doesn't have much of a choke to it. So that's when I had to conclude that wounding on back of hip must have been from the diverted frangible possibly already being partially deformed even before penetrating hide so already way more shallow perhaps? I just wasn't to impress with that round. So will only use it on yotes until that box is gone, then wanna try these new Hornady 35gr NTX for Yotes @ 4000fps!

If you think about it it's like a 36gr Mini-Mag .22 LR bumped up 4x on like Steroids due to that higher velocity! Curious to try because of how much I'm enjoying .17 HMR, so figure these rounds would let me try doing yotes or Ground Squirrels at farther distances now if I can happen to see them first like when you wait those 10-15 mins after you stop calling just to see if one rolls in curiously afterward.

 

[Lawnboi]

I'm running 75eldms in my 223 as well. What's your COAL?

2.41” approx .010 off the lands.

 

[aschuler]

2.41” approx .010 off the lands.

Thanks, I'm at 2.440, also 0.010 off the lands (from my measurement)

 

[9.3koolaid]

Relevant case study, this thread is basically the same thing with updated bullets.

 

[CTXhunter]

Guns and ego go together like peas and carrots. Few areas of male life feature quite the same status based incentive to speak with authority... regardless of experience or expertise. We are all naturally prone to generalize our own experience - our sample of one becomes representative of the whole. While that is a flawed approach in itself, we often fail to understand our sample of one. We don't know why something works... but, we know it did (at least once, anyhow). Superstitions, routines, and rituals are often manifestations of this.

I've taught a bunch of folks to shoot, primarily pistol. It never ceases to amaze that after more or less the same basic instruction women are punching holes out of the center and dudes are loading shit in the magazine backwards.

Man, well said.

 

[PNWGATOR]

The video is interesting, but his conclusions are not accurate. Foot pounds of energy has zero correlation with terminal performance.

 

[9.3koolaid]

The video is interesting, but his conclusions are not accurate. Foot pounds of energy has zero correlation with terminal performance.

Yeah, it helps show that the bullets discussed in this thread are what make the difference. I think one would come to a similar conclusion to his given the bullets available at the time. Kinetic energy notwithstanding.

How do we get Kimber to make a .223 Montana again but with a 1/7?

 

[Formidilosus]

Relevant case study, this thread is basically the same thing with updated bullets.

I do not mean this to be rude, however that video is a perfect example of an incomplete and/or faulty base of knowledge, leading to a misinterpretation of evidence, causing an incorrect conclusion. The main issue, like most, is that there are enough correct parts in it, to make people believe the whole.
Nine animals is a not enough to determine the performance of one bullet at similar impact velocities, let alone the same bullet at varying impacts velocities, nor even close to to determine multiple different projectiles at varying impacts speeds.

The real point to the video is- bullets matter.

 

[9.3koolaid]

The real point to the video is- bullets matter.

I agree, and agree with your point that nine caribou with different bullets, at different velocities, isn't exactly a lot of data to go off.

What did you think of the "wound volume" calculation from the video? I've never seen it anywhere else but thought it was interesting. And about how would a 77gr TMK compare using this kind of metric?

 

[Formidilosus]

What did you think of the "wound volume" calculation from the video? I've never seen it anywhere else but thought it was interesting. And about how would a 77gr TMK compare using this kind of metric?

The problem with “wound volume” in newspaper, is that it way overestimates the permanent cavity that is caused by the temporary stretch cavity. As an example is that a large caliber with a bonded or mono bullet would have a significantly larger “wound volume” than a fast .224 with a heavy fragmenting bullet in newspaper. However, the actual permanent damage could be way more with the .224 in live tissue.

In properly calibrated ballistics gel, the 77gr TMK produces significantly larger (read- wound volume) wounds in the first 14-16” inches of penetration than most 30cal magnums with conventional bullets.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

Nine animals is a not enough to determine the performance of one bullet at similar impact velocities,

What would you consider to be enough to determine the the performance of one bullet at similar impact velocities?

Is there a testing medium that you consider to be a reliable predictor of how a bullet will behave on game.

 

[Formidilosus]

What would you consider to be enough to determine the the performance of one bullet at similar impact velocities?

Somewhere around 20-30 with varying impact locations and similar impact velocities if there are no properly conducted ballistics gel tests before hand. Samples of one is not “data”.

Is there a testing medium that you consider to be a reliable predictor of how a bullet will behave on game.

It’s not an “I” consider. Properly calibrated 10% ballistic ordnance gel has proven to correlate with in tissue performance for tens of thousands of data sets. I used to say that with a full test on a bullet in gel, that I would be comfortable with 10-15 animals to confirm performance. Having seen so many at this point, I’m comfortable with what the bullet will do with a handful.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

It’s not an “I” consider. Properly calibrated 10% ballistic ordnance gel has proven to correlate with in tissue performance for tens of thousands of data sets.

Is there a way for the lay person to access that kind of information. You have an incredible body of knowledge, data, experience etc. I pick your brain as often as possible and appreciate your considered responses, but I'd love to be able to get the info without bugging you.

 

[Adam Gibbs]

I'm sure it's been said in here, but what's everyone's pet load for the TMK in an AR? I'm having a hard time finding published load data for that particular bullet.