.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[fightthenoise]

Those were cows. Though I haven’t seen anything that says it matters. A bull will have an inch or two more muscle on the forelegs, the scapula and humerus aren’t different enough to matter.

I didn’t figure it mattered either. Just asking for posterity mainly. Great post.

 

[Formidilosus]

I didn’t figure it mattered either. Just asking for posterity mainly. Great post.

Yeah. It’s stated constantly that “so and so is ok for cows, but for bulls you need....”.
Yet from a physiological perspective I haven’t seen enough difference between them to matter. Any projectile that will make it through the scapula and to the offside ribs on a mature cow, will do so on a bull as well.

 

[mmw194287]

As I’ve stated from the beginning- for me, the 223/77gr TMK combo is completely sufficient for killing quickly and without fuss, any animal in NA save maybe a Bison, to approximately 1,900fps impact speed, which is around 450 yards. From 0-300’ish yards (above 2,200fps impact) wounds are absolutely devastating, and no one has wanted “more”. From about 300 to 450 yards (2,200 to 1,900fps impact) wounds resemble a lot of standard C&C bullets from 308/270/3006/etc.

I've been curious about shooting the 77 TMK through a 22 Creedmoor to keep impact velocity high and wounds devastating out to 500 or so with a short barrel (maybe 18"?). Just throwing out rough numbers here, but if I had them leaving the muzzle at 3200 fps, they'd maintain that 2,200+ threshold out to 550-575 yards. They'd also, however, be moving pretty fast if I had a 100-200 yard shot at an animal.

What is the terminal performance like with an impact around 3000 fps? Explosive, I'm sure--but enough so that you'd lose a significant degree of penetration? Any concerns with them being too "splashy" in faster cartridges than the .223?

 

[Formidilosus]

I've been curious about shooting the 77 TMK through a 22 Creedmoor to keep impact velocity high and wounds devastating out to 500 or so with a short barrel (maybe 18"?). Just throwing out rough numbers here, but if I had them leaving the muzzle at 3200 fps, they'd maintain that 2,200+ threshold out to 550-575 yards. They'd also, however, be moving pretty fast if I had a 100-200 yard shot at an animal.

What is the terminal performance like with an impact around 3000 fps? Explosive, I'm sure--but enough so that you'd lose a significant degree of penetration? Any concerns with them being too "splashy" in faster cartridges than the .223?

They work. But at 3,000fps and above impact speed, expect 12” or so of penetration. That doesn’t bother me because 12” is enough to break animals down, and at close range, picking a shot isn’t hard.

 

[woods89]

Some nice evidentiary additions here. I always enjoy seeing some new post on this one.

 

[TxxAgg]

Hoping to add more to this thread in a week. Pigs and deer beware.

 

[JBradley500]

What factory bolt guns do you guys use to shoot those 77TMKs? This thread is pretty enlightening.

 

[amassi]

What factory bolt guns do you guys use to shoot those 77TMKs? This thread is pretty enlightening.

Anything with an 8 twist or faster. Tikka when you can find them tends to be the general consensus

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[RedRidge]

Well I finally got the chance to try out a 77gr TMK on a deer. Worked as advertised. About a 50 yard shot and 5-10 yard recovery. Caught ribs and top of the heart and almost pass through offside. Found bone fragments in the heart. I have some more deer hunting coming this next week for late season deer and will test it out on a few more. Good first impression so far.

 

[hereinaz]

Thanks for this thread. The use of the 77 gr TMK has confirmed things I knew for higjer caliber bullets of the same match type construction. Glad to see the bullets just devastate even though they weigh much less than half as much.

It specifically helped comfirm a decision I made to build a lightweight 6mm BRA to shoot 95 -105 grain vldh. As a Berger fanboi I may try TMK now. It is for lightweight backpacking and 650 yard shots in AZ coues country, although now I would but hesitate to use it on elk as well. I considered a .224 but the ballistics for long range didn't do it for me, I was only comfortable to 450ish. And, I already shoot a lot of 6mm. For the curious, it is on a Howa Mini Action, 20" proof carbon fiber barrel, stock still undecided.

1) it's about bullet construction and teminal velocity. I just didn't realize it translated all the way down to the humble 77 tmk. I have this discussion all the time trying to talk guys out of their big boomers they can't shoot worth crap.

2) match bullets with proper tip construction are devestating and result in very fast kills.

3) match bullets are accurate and only accurate bullets are interesting...

4) putting the right bullet in the right spot at rhe right speed is the only important thing. And, it's far more important than total energy. Match bullets in smaller rifles do that better than big boomers.

5) big boomer magnums create recoil that moves the point of impact dramatically and flinch induced trigger pulls more it even more. The sauce isn't worth it. The ratio of guys who are bad shooters with big boomers seems higher than smaller. They have more inexplicable misses than any other hunters I talk with. They should step down to a more managable rifle.

6) the "break shoulder with hard bullet" so I don't have to track them is an old voodoo religion that won't die. I put Bergers in the lungs and critters die.

5) the "elk are nearly bulletproof" myth is based on bad shots, on top of big magnums, on top of old bullet technology, on top of their ability to walk a long ways while mortally wounded by bullets that were not immediately devestating. Bone isn't as hard as most people think when facing a high velocity projectile. A good match hunting bullet is highly unlikely to deflect off even the hardest point of shoulder knuckle.

6) I shoot the lungs. My small sample of three elk that were double lunged with 180 vld just stood there at 500, 600, and 1000 yards like they were hypnotized, got another bullet for good measure and then tipped over dead. The caribou at 435 did the same. For some reason, when smacked with an "exploding" match bullet, they didn't run at all. Curious if others notice that. Deer fell over dead. One ran 30 yards while it was dead.

7) I was surprised that the pictures of the .224 on this thread look almost identical to all the deer, elk, and caribou I have seen shot with 180 vld, maybe just a little bigger exits at times. The elk and caribou we hit inside 200 yards blew baseball sized holes out the opposite ribs. The deer were the same out to 700.

8) I need a .223...

 

[Fotis]

I suspect a bit of a troll job here

That said i’ll Take a mag full of77gr tmk over a mag box full of 200gr eld-x

Me too ....for coyotes only!

 

[Overthefalls]

This thread should be mandatory reading.. totally changed my perspective

 

[Castle Rock]

I've been curious about shooting the 77 TMK through a 22 Creedmoor to keep impact velocity high and wounds devastating out to 500 or so with a short barrel (maybe 18"?). Just throwing out rough numbers here, but if I had them leaving the muzzle at 3200 fps, they'd maintain that 2,200+ threshold out to 550-575 yards. They'd also, however, be moving pretty fast if I had a 100-200 yard shot at an animal.

What is the terminal performance like with an impact around 3000 fps? Explosive, I'm sure--but enough so that you'd lose a significant degree of penetration? Any concerns with them being too "splashy" in faster cartridges than the .223?

I’m using the 77TMK at 3200 in an 8 twist Tikka 22/250 it is amazing
If you look back through my posts in this thread you will find some photos

 

[amassi]

I’m using the 77TMK at 3200 in an 8 twist Tikka, it is amazing
If you look back through my posts in this thread you will find some photos

22-250?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Castle Rock]

Yep

 

[RyanT26]

If this has already been asked I apologize. Are you shooting black hills factory ammo or is this reloads?
From what I can tell Black Hills an Unknown are the only company’s loading this.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Black Hills factory ammo at this time. However, it’s almost impossible to find and Unknown Munitions will get future business.

 

[Lawnboi]

If this has already been asked I apologize. Are you shooting black hills factory ammo or is this reloads?
From what I can tell Black Hills an Unknown are the only company’s loading this.

I’m hand loading. Way cheaper, well was when you could find primers and powder.

 

[RyanT26]

I’m hand loading. Way cheaper, well was when you could find primers and powder.

Would you mind sharing your recipe, with the normal disclaimer.

 

[Lawnboi]

Would you mind sharing your recipe, with the normal disclaimer.

Hornady brass
CCI 450
24 grains of varget
.020 off the lands
2750 FPS any more powder and I get a little crunch. I havnt been able to cram enough varget in a case with this rifle to show any pressure signs.


Don’t have the exact OAL in front of me, but it won’t fit in a stock tikka mag, just barely though. MT mags leave me plenty of room.

Honestly I didn’t do squat for tuning on this load. I know the gun well enough I loaded 3 loads where I thought they should be, shot them and made a decision. Havnt messed with seating depth or anything yet and probably won’t. Last 2 5 round groups for zero confirmation went 3/4 moa. The 8” plate at 400 yards at the local range dosnt stand a chance against it. Need to load up another 100 for the winter here soon.
The box in the background was the extent of my load development for the 77 tmk.