.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[RedRidge]

Well I finally got the chance to try out a 77gr TMK on a deer. Worked as advertised. About a 50 yard shot and 5-10 yard recovery. Caught ribs and top of the heart and almost pass through offside. Found bone fragments in the heart. I have some more deer hunting coming this next week for late season deer and will test it out on a few more. Good first impression so far.

 

[hereinaz]

Thanks for this thread. The use of the 77 gr TMK has confirmed things I knew for higjer caliber bullets of the same match type construction. Glad to see the bullets just devastate even though they weigh much less than half as much.

It specifically helped comfirm a decision I made to build a lightweight 6mm BRA to shoot 95 -105 grain vldh. As a Berger fanboi I may try TMK now. It is for lightweight backpacking and 650 yard shots in AZ coues country, although now I would but hesitate to use it on elk as well. I considered a .224 but the ballistics for long range didn't do it for me, I was only comfortable to 450ish. And, I already shoot a lot of 6mm. For the curious, it is on a Howa Mini Action, 20" proof carbon fiber barrel, stock still undecided.

1) it's about bullet construction and teminal velocity. I just didn't realize it translated all the way down to the humble 77 tmk. I have this discussion all the time trying to talk guys out of their big boomers they can't shoot worth crap.

2) match bullets with proper tip construction are devestating and result in very fast kills.

3) match bullets are accurate and only accurate bullets are interesting...

4) putting the right bullet in the right spot at rhe right speed is the only important thing. And, it's far more important than total energy. Match bullets in smaller rifles do that better than big boomers.

5) big boomer magnums create recoil that moves the point of impact dramatically and flinch induced trigger pulls more it even more. The sauce isn't worth it. The ratio of guys who are bad shooters with big boomers seems higher than smaller. They have more inexplicable misses than any other hunters I talk with. They should step down to a more managable rifle.

6) the "break shoulder with hard bullet" so I don't have to track them is an old voodoo religion that won't die. I put Bergers in the lungs and critters die.

5) the "elk are nearly bulletproof" myth is based on bad shots, on top of big magnums, on top of old bullet technology, on top of their ability to walk a long ways while mortally wounded by bullets that were not immediately devestating. Bone isn't as hard as most people think when facing a high velocity projectile. A good match hunting bullet is highly unlikely to deflect off even the hardest point of shoulder knuckle.

6) I shoot the lungs. My small sample of three elk that were double lunged with 180 vld just stood there at 500, 600, and 1000 yards like they were hypnotized, got another bullet for good measure and then tipped over dead. The caribou at 435 did the same. For some reason, when smacked with an "exploding" match bullet, they didn't run at all. Curious if others notice that. Deer fell over dead. One ran 30 yards while it was dead.

7) I was surprised that the pictures of the .224 on this thread look almost identical to all the deer, elk, and caribou I have seen shot with 180 vld, maybe just a little bigger exits at times. The elk and caribou we hit inside 200 yards blew baseball sized holes out the opposite ribs. The deer were the same out to 700.

8) I need a .223...

 

[Fotis]

I suspect a bit of a troll job here

That said i’ll Take a mag full of77gr tmk over a mag box full of 200gr eld-x

Me too ....for coyotes only!

 

[Overthefalls]

This thread should be mandatory reading.. totally changed my perspective

 

[Castle Rock]

I've been curious about shooting the 77 TMK through a 22 Creedmoor to keep impact velocity high and wounds devastating out to 500 or so with a short barrel (maybe 18"?). Just throwing out rough numbers here, but if I had them leaving the muzzle at 3200 fps, they'd maintain that 2,200+ threshold out to 550-575 yards. They'd also, however, be moving pretty fast if I had a 100-200 yard shot at an animal.

What is the terminal performance like with an impact around 3000 fps? Explosive, I'm sure--but enough so that you'd lose a significant degree of penetration? Any concerns with them being too "splashy" in faster cartridges than the .223?

I’m using the 77TMK at 3200 in an 8 twist Tikka 22/250 it is amazing
If you look back through my posts in this thread you will find some photos

 

[amassi]

I’m using the 77TMK at 3200 in an 8 twist Tikka, it is amazing
If you look back through my posts in this thread you will find some photos

22-250?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Castle Rock]

Yep

 

[RyanT26]

If this has already been asked I apologize. Are you shooting black hills factory ammo or is this reloads?
From what I can tell Black Hills an Unknown are the only company’s loading this.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Black Hills factory ammo at this time. However, it’s almost impossible to find and Unknown Munitions will get future business.

 

[Lawnboi]

If this has already been asked I apologize. Are you shooting black hills factory ammo or is this reloads?
From what I can tell Black Hills an Unknown are the only company’s loading this.

I’m hand loading. Way cheaper, well was when you could find primers and powder.

 

[RyanT26]

I’m hand loading. Way cheaper, well was when you could find primers and powder.

Would you mind sharing your recipe, with the normal disclaimer.

 

[Lawnboi]

Would you mind sharing your recipe, with the normal disclaimer.

Hornady brass
CCI 450
24 grains of varget
.020 off the lands
2750 FPS any more powder and I get a little crunch. I havnt been able to cram enough varget in a case with this rifle to show any pressure signs.


Don’t have the exact OAL in front of me, but it won’t fit in a stock tikka mag, just barely though. MT mags leave me plenty of room.

Honestly I didn’t do squat for tuning on this load. I know the gun well enough I loaded 3 loads where I thought they should be, shot them and made a decision. Havnt messed with seating depth or anything yet and probably won’t. Last 2 5 round groups for zero confirmation went 3/4 moa. The 8” plate at 400 yards at the local range dosnt stand a chance against it. Need to load up another 100 for the winter here soon.
The box in the background was the extent of my load development for the 77 tmk.

 

[flyinsquirel]

Would you mind sharing your recipe, with the normal disclaimer.

Not the TMK, but the regular 77 MK. Hopefully its helpfull. Tac has been easier to find lately. So far so good.

This rifle has an extremely short chamber, so fitting the factory mag isn't a problem with the regular MK's. Might be different with the TMK's.

Tikka SL - factory tube
Lapua Brass
BR4 primer - all I could find recently
23.8g TAC
-0.010 off the lands
Avg. 2716

 

[RyanT26]

Thanks!
I don’t have a .223 bolt gun currently. I am using the 69TMK in my Ar. Was going to try some 77TMK I thought the overall length was going to be more of an issue. The 69TMK were impressive on deer this year.

OAL 2.260
23gr of AR-comp
Hornady or armscor brass
Cci 400 primers

 

[FLS]

My go to load for 77 SMKs or TMKs is
24.5 Grains of TAC
LC Brass
BR4
2.260”
2775 FPS out of an 18” 1-8 twist barrel

 

[robtattoo]

CCI 450
24.8 grains of varget
Mixed commercial brass (RP & Hornady mostly)
2840 FPS out of a 22" 1:9 savage.
I don't have my oal handy, but mag length.

That 24.8 load seems to just be perfect for every 62gn & heavier bullet I've tried, it of every .223 I've owned. I don't even play with other loads the days.

 

[woods89]

Thanks!
I don’t have a .223 bolt gun currently. I am using the 69TMK in my Ar. Was going to try some 77TMK I thought the overall length was going to be more of an issue. The 69TMK were impressive on deer this year.

OAL 2.260
23gr of AR-comp
Hornady or armscor brass
Cci 400 primers

Details on using 69 gr. on deer? I have a bunch coming. I understand they don't penetrate quite as much as 77 gr?

 

[RyanT26]

This was the first year I used them and we only shot 3 deer this year. 1 buck and 2 does.
The whitetail buck has at 75 yards was shot twice. Second round wasn’t really needed but my son was shooting and I told him to send a second one if he has any doubts and he did. Both good hits in the chest cavity and both passed through. Entrances were normal, side by side. Exits were also rather close and made one large hole, 3”x4”
1st doe was around 160yards with total pass through. Lower chest hit destroyed heart and lungs.
2nd doe was at 25 yards. Chest entrance Exited through the opposite front shoulder. This one did appear to come apart. I recovered a large portion of the jacket in the chest cavity but enough still punched through to thoroughly destroy the front quarter on the opposite side. I was not surprised this one came apart given how close it was. Still plenty happy with the performance of the bullet.

All deer were just normal western Kansas white tails.

 

[woods89]

This was the first year I used them and we only shot 3 deer this year. 1 buck and 2 does.
The whitetail buck has at 75 yards was shot twice. Second round wasn’t really needed but my son was shooting and a told him send a second one if he has any doubts and he did. Both good hits in the chest cavity and both passed through. Entrances were normal, side by side. Exits were also rather close and made one large hole, 3”x4”
1st doe was around 160yards with total pass through. Lower chest hit destroyed heart and lungs.
2nd doe was at 25 yards. Chest entrance Exited through the opposite front shoulder. This one did appear to come apart. I recovered a large portion of the jacket in the chest cavity but enough still punched through to thoroughly destroy the front quarter on the opposite side. I was not surprised this one came apart given how close it was. Still plenty happy with the performance of the bullet.

All deer were just normal western Kansas white tails.

Thank you, sir!

 

[Bcleck90]

Tikka T3X using 75 grain Gold Dots. Slightly quartering to me at 122 yards. Broke his other shoulder and exited. He ran about 10 steps and rolled down a hill about 30 yards.