.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

Pharmseller said:
Deer only here in Oregon.

My ELDM load falls below 1800 fps around 600 yards.

I‘m just asking about the difference in bullet performance.

Forgive me but I don’t see your point.





P
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At similar fps if you cant kill a deer with a 73 to 80 grn ELDM you wont with a 77TMK. The TMK isn't magic. Accuracy over cult factor every day.
 
Tahr said:
At similar fps if you cant kill a deer with a 73 to 80 grn ELDM you wont with a 77TMK. The TMK isn't magic. Accuracy over cult factor every day.
Click to expand...
Conversely, if you can't kill a deer with a 1.5 MOA TMK you won't with a .75 MOA ELD. Terminal performance over meaningless difference in precision every day.

For the record I think your statement is substantially true as well. Both bullets kill well, and let's be realistic about how much precision is really required.
 
eric1115 said:
Conversely, if you can't kill a deer with a 1.5 MOA TMK you won't with a .75 MOA ELD. Terminal performance over meaningless difference in precision every day.

For the record I think your statement is substantially true as well. Both bullets kill well, and let's be realistic about how much precision is really required.
Click to expand...
Yes I can agree with that.
For me supreme accuracy gives me confidence - a mind thing.

I don't think that the TMK's are over-touted because I know through a lot of experience since they were first introduced that they are very good. But I also know that the ELDM's and some Berger jacketed custom bullets kill just as well.

I'm certain that if I put up a series of photos of terminal damage from the 3 classes of bullets I have mentioned of similar weight no one would be able to tell the difference.

Ive shot over 40 deer with the .223 this year. About 15 with TMK. The rest with 80 grn Berger jacketed customs and some 60 grn Hammers. Out to 400 odd yards. I couldn't pick the best performer. A reservation is that I haven't shot one with the Hammers over about 250 yards so I dont know how they will perform at a decent range.

No deer went further than performing what I call the ".223 stagger" or a brief death rush before tipping over. Most were lung or shoulder shot.
 
Last edited:
ok, im not gonna read 5000 posts to find this so please dont rip me. what powder, primer, loads you guys that are handloading use for the tmk's. I totally admit I never read this thread cause I cant do the 223 for moose thing. But, I have read enuf to try the tmk's. I just build a tikka 308 but the recoil hurts my cervical stenosis so thinking I might go the 223 route this year or next. I would prefer to buy something factory but can reload a hundred or so.
 
KHntr said:
Guess I can add another data point for the 88 ELDm and 223AI. If there are typos, my bad. It’s 2 am and I am having a gin before a shower after just walking in the house from a successful moose hunt.

Here in North East BC we have a pair of 2 day moose seasons - Oct 25/26 and Nov 10/11. Only open for spike/fork, tripalm, or ten points.
Had a pretty good idea of where I wanted to go for the day, same place as last year where myself and my hunting partner shot a pair of 2 points about 30 seconds apart. I poked an 88 ELDm through the shoulders of mine and he was down at the shot.

This year I had to cut a trail around a bunch of blowdown from forest fires this summer (well, actually they are still burning here where I was) so I didn’t get into the cutblock until 3:30pm.
4pm found a pretty reasonable bull about 600 yards out, but there was a lot of willow and alder between us so I cut some distance.
Tripalm 10 point walked into a small opening at 166 yards quartering to me so I put an 88 into the point of his shoulder. He three legged hopped about 10 yards, and was broadside so I gave him a second one through the lungs because I think that the shooting is the fun part.
Two or three wobbly steps and he went down.
1st one absolutely smashed the front knuckle to bits (that quarter folds in the middle when trying to move it around) and turned the onside lung to jelly. Second poke broke ribs on the entrance, both lungs gooey, and found part of the bullet in the muscle at the back of the offside shoulder. Some lead shrapnel was embedded in the ribs inside the cavity, but that could have been either shot.
Click to expand...
Gangsta
 
bnsafe said:
ok, im not gonna read 5000 posts to find this so please dont rip me. what powder, primer, loads you guys that are handloading use for the tmk's. I totally admit I never read this thread cause I cant do the 223 for moose thing. But, I have read enuf to try the tmk's. I just build a tikka 308 but the recoil hurts my cervical stenosis so thinking I might go the 223 route this year or next. I would prefer to buy something factory but can reload a hundred or so.
Click to expand...

8208, TAC, and AR Comp have all given me good results using heavy bullets in the .223 and in my 6X45. I stick to CCI primers. I also prefer Winchester brass. I have used Federal without issue, but find that I can get a few more loadings from Win brass.
 
For those who don't roll their own, has anyone compared Stand 1 Armory 223 77gr TMKs vs Black Hills 5.56 77gr TMKs?
 
Anyone running 73 ELDM or 77tmks out of a mini 14? Wasn't sure how stability of the 1 in 9 twist was. I know a guy selling one and thought about it, but it's not as appealing if it's not going to shoot heavies.
 
The ELDM might be ok but the 77 grain could be a problem out of a 1-9. As for the rifle itself it really depends if it is one of the early ones or a more recent mini. The early one's had accuracy issues as soon as the barrel warmed up. I had one I bought in the early 80s and it was very accurate with a cold bore and maybe 2 additional rounds then it would walk the following rounds up vertically. I ended up selling it and never bought another one. I've heard the newer ones are much improved however usually you can find an AR for less money than a mini and it will be more accurate.

But as far as handling I liked that rifle a lot.
 
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