.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[35WhelenAI]

Really? Can you point out the “good points” that are rooted in fact and not an abbreviated attempt at discrediting something using fallacy and no first hand experience?

1) Those hunters were unthinking and looking for a video in their pursuit, what happened with that cartridge has little to do with a cartridge and everything to do with them choosing to let off a shot on that bear. They owned it, a credit to them on that. Yet, stars in their eyes clouded their judgment even with the "experience" they represent. The fact it didn't cross their mind while in the field says a lot about what many folks do but will not own up to with any rifle.

2) The .223 debate does discount larger calibers as not necessary and paints the shade of being less effective on-game. Dead is dead, Wound pictures are just that, pictures of a dead animal. Lord, I wish I had taken pictures of the vitals for the last 30 years with my larger caliber rifles, and the other harvests I've been part of.

3) There are many hunters that fit the description of not being seasoned in the field they are hunting. I meet them each year. They have hunted deer as their main big game and now they are hunting elk in the mountain west for one week every other year or less frequently.

4) When following the advice of a smaller caliber frangible bullet, when faced with a shot at a less than ideal angle, will they pass on a shot? Will the .223 with the 77 TMK unequivocally reach the vitals from the same angles as a 6.5/.270/7mm/.308 caliber/.358 caliber on the same apples to apples shot presentation?

Those are good points he made. Whether you agree or disagree, they show a side of the discussion and he backed them.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Feel free to check out www.ballisticstudies.com. It’s already referenced in this thread. Mr. Foster has plenty of time shooting fully fragmentary bullets (aka: the TMK, old A-Max, now ELD-M) from a variety of calibers and cartridges. If I can be so bold as to recommend a different source than this thread.

Good points and observations he presents.

 

[ARK_Ginger]

4) When following the advice of a smaller caliber frangible bullet, when faced with a shot at a less than ideal angle, will they pass on a shot? Will the .223 with the 77 TMK unequivocally reach the vitals from the same angles as a 6.5/.270/7mm/.308 caliber/.358 caliber on the same apples to apples shot presentation?

Those are good points he made. Whether you agree or disagree, they show a side of the discussion and he backed them.

This point has been answered ad nauseam in this thread alone (and makes your other points moot in my view). People who have not read the thread wish to keep bringing it up to cast doubt on the 77gr TMK combo without informing themselves on the subject.

To clarify, there is no less than ideal angle that the 77gr TMK will not reach the vitals where a larger caliber will.

 

[Skerhunter]

They very much do.

175's whats the min. velocity for these to fragment/work in your experience? Same as the 77? I have a bunch of loads for a couple of rifles ready to shoot when the weather/life allows.

 

[35WhelenAI]

This point has been answered ad nauseam in this thread alone (and makes your other points moot in my view). People who have not read the thread wish to keep bringing it up to cast doubt on the 77gr TMK combo without informing themselves on the subject.

To clarify, there is no less than ideal angle that the 77gr TMK will not reach the vitals where a larger caliber will.

Good post.

I've read more than a fair share of the 3000+ posts. This thread is a cycle. As you say, these points have been discussed ad nauseum. Nothing new is going to come that hasn't come already.

I'd suggest locking the thread and making it a sticky.

There is no new factual information to be shared because the rest of the thread already contains everything there is to know, as is regularly shared ad nauseum.

 

[mtnwrunner]

Oh, I don't think it needs to be locked. Some great viewpoints and experiences here. I'd like to keep seeing photos of the terminal ballistics, hear stories and maybe we'll even get some videos.
It's a great thread.......other than the fact it's harder than hell to get any of the components.

Randy

 

[Ryan Avery]

Good post.

I've read more than a fair share of the 3000+ posts. This thread is a cycle. As you say, these points have been discussed ad nauseum. Nothing new is going to come that hasn't come already.

I'd suggest locking the thread and making it a sticky.

There is no new factual information to be shared because the rest of the thread already contains everything there is to know, as is regularly shared ad nauseum.

Locking it would kill the SEO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[JDeanP]

There are people who are willing to read 150 pages to seek knowledge and understand. There are also people who buy one box of cartridges a year and have their own 150 pages of excuses.

 

[letrbuck]

This thread has been hard to keep up with... but I shared my success experience early on with the 75gr Swift Scirocco ii and only have a few left.

The 77 tmk seems to be the winning bullet, but curious if anyone has experience with the 64gr bonded solid base from Nosler?

 

[ARK_Ginger]

This thread has been hard to keep up with... but I shared my success experience early on with the 75gr Swift Scirocco ii and only have a few left.

The 77 tmk seems to be the winning bullet, but curious if anyone has experience with the 64gr bonded solid base from Nosler?

Since no one has answered you yet, I believe it is a good performer for a bonded bullet. Probably close in performance with the gold dot/fusion with the gold dot/fusion being slightly better terminally. I have not used any, just going off of memory from prior threads.

I believe the 73gr ELD is the closest replacement to the 77TMK currently out there for typical magazine length loads.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Post in thread '.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.' https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/post-1907289

This is the list of recommended bullets

 

[fwafwow]

This thread has been hard to keep up with... but I shared my success experience early on with the 75gr Swift Scirocco ii and only have a few left.

The 77 tmk seems to be the winning bullet, but curious if anyone has experience with the 64gr bonded solid base from Nosler?

You can also search within the thread. I think there are other posts about the 64 bsb

 

[Formidilosus]

The 77 tmk seems to be the winning bullet, but curious if anyone has experience with the 64gr bonded solid base from Nosler?

At higher impact velocities- 2,200-2,300fps, the 64gr BSB does well terminally. It has a poor BC, isn’t the most precise bullet, and needs velocity to work well.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Sure , it may kill one, but how badly will you hurt waiting for the bear to realize it’s dead. The latest stuck in the rut has some pretty exciting footage. Three good shots from a 338 rum, Then five more from a 454.

I watched that episode. Hard to believe that bear took 3 “good” shots from a 338 rum and still came at them like that. Its likely the only shot in the vitals was from the 454.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I watched that episode. Hard to believe that bear took 3 “good” shots from a 338 rum and still came at them like that. Its likely the only shot in the vitals was from the 454.

Yup, agree. Bullets don't lie, when they hit vitals things die.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Yup, agree. Bullets don't lie, when they hit vitals things die.

I wish I had a dollar for every time somebody said they made a “perfect” shot and never recovered the animal…lol.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

What's everyone's tikka liking for training ammo? Mine hates the green tip pmc stuff, to the point that I'm hesitant to buy a case of anything factory right now. 4 moa isn't useful for training myself or my kids.

 

[Castle Rock]

Whatever you can get in a plastic tipped bullet will do fine

 

[Formidilosus]

What's everyone's tikka liking for training ammo? Mine hates the green tip pmc stuff, to the point that I'm hesitant to buy a case of anything factory right now. 4 moa isn't useful for training myself or my kids.

Hornady Frontier HPBT generally is for 2 to 2.5 MOA which works for most practice.

 

[ztc92]

What's everyone's tikka liking for training ammo? Mine hates the green tip pmc stuff, to the point that I'm hesitant to buy a case of anything factory right now. 4 moa isn't useful for training myself or my kids.

Best value to accuracy I’ve found so far is Hornady frontier. Mine really likes the 68g and 75g BTHP’s and they can be found for around $13/box in Montana where I’m at.

This was a 10 shot group out of mine with the 68g BTHP.