bojangles808
WKR
any factory come close to the damage the 77 grain tmk does? I see black hills makes some but looks hard to come by. I also don't reload.
Heck yea! I skinned a moose this fall that had 3 223 rounds in it.Charlie Wright from "Yukon Men" always carried what looked like a surplus M-16A1 for moose near Tanana.
Soooooo...
3 large, poorly placed, rifle rounds didn't kill/slow down the bear; but a single, well placed pistol shot appears to have killed the bear?
Is that a good summary?
Did they mushroom or break up at all? Or was it some jack wagon poking holes with FMJ's?Heck yea! I skinned a moose this fall that had 3 223 rounds in it.
They was mushroomedDid they mushroom or break up at all? Or was it some jack wagon poking holes with FMJ's?
Did they mushroom or break up at all? Or was it some jack wagon poking holes with FMJ's?
Do you know what bullets were used in the 338 RUM?The latest stuck in the rut has some pretty exciting footage. Three good shots from a 338 rum, Then five more from a 454.
225 gr. Accubonds were used in the rifle.Do you know what bullets were used in the 338 RUM?
This sounds to me like poor bullet performance. My first guess would be a heavier mono of some flavor, most likely a Barnes.
Did they mushroom or break up at all? Or was it some jack wagon poking holes with FMJ's?
I asked a simple question. No need to be so militant about details that may go against your theory. It's not a very scientific conversation if competing info is immediately dismissed.Why don’t you actually read the entire thread- every post. There is no place on the internet that has as much actual discussion of how bullets kill- with pictures, in animals, than this thread. Every “got ya” you are stating has been discussed at length. You are not only incorrect with your assertions, you are ignorant of the subject.
I asked a simple question. No need to be so militant about details that may go against your theory. It's not a very scientific conversation if competing info is immediately dismissed.
So do you have any videos posted of a bull elk being taken with one? I'm honestly interested in seeing one without committing to something I personally don't believe is the best option for me. Evidence and facts in your head alone are anecdotal, just as others have said about any other unscientific uncontrolled experiments. Documenting the experience legitimizes it for everyone, and pictures tell very little of a story.You can not have an intellectual conversation between multiple parties if one party is ignorant of facts. Ignorant does not mean stupid- it means lacking education or knowledge of a particular subject. The questions you are asking about point to the fact that you are missing quite a bit of information.
You have not used the combo in question, and lack an understanding of how and why it is doing in tissue what it is. As for “details”- no. It is very likely that there is no human alive that has killed more game animals with the 77gr TMK than I (maybe @chamois has) and almost certainly no person that has seen more killed with it; and that experience is directly compared to thousands of game animals killed with calibers from .224 to .50BMG with an understanding of terminal ballistics.
There’s no “theory”. There are measured, observable and replicable terminal Ballistics facts. That the hunting and/or gun community at large haven’t let go of myth and lore, does not change that. You have provided no competing info- only conjecture and misbeliefs.
I am suggesting that you read the entire thread, as nearly everything you could ask has been addressed already. If you do that, then a real discussion about certain aspects can be had. If you don’t, it’s just noise.
So do you have any videos posted of a bull elk being taken with one? I'm honestly interested in seeing one without committing to something I personally don't believe is the best option for me. Evidence and facts in your head alone are anecdotal, just as others have said about any other unscientific uncontrolled experiments. Documenting the experience legitimizes it for everyone, and pictures tell very little of a story.
However, what is the main reason for guys going out and buying the 223's over say a 6.5 creed or other 6mm?
However, after 400 yards or so, the wind deflection of the 223 appears to really start to be an issue compared to the higher BC 6's and 6.5's. I shoot quite a bit more than the average person I would guess, and I am positive that in almost all field conditions, I am going to shoot a 6 or 6.5 better just because of the wind factor being more predictable.
So do you have any videos posted of a bull elk being taken with one? I'm honestly interested in seeing one without committing to something I personally don't believe is the best option for me. Evidence and facts in your head alone are anecdotal, just as others have said about any other unscientific uncontrolled experiments. Documenting the experience legitimizes it for everyone, and pictures tell very little of a story.
Since I can't replenish the 77 tmks at the moment, I'm going to see if I these 175s will impress out of 308, 06, and WM.
What makes the hit rate so high for the 223 under 450 you think? It has to be recoil right? Do nerves play a big part in the hit rate? Past 450, I definitely won't argue on the 22CM and 6mm.Absolute hit rate on animals. I and those I hunt and shoot with track hits and misses as well as the results of shots from every animal killed or shot at. From muzzle to somewhere around 450 yards, the 223/77TMK has the highest success rate- that is animals desired to be killed, that actually end up dead; and the lowest miss or wound rate of any combo seen- that is across hundreds of animals with nearly every caliber from .224-.338. This is from beginner to world class shooters, and from first animal for that person to the thousandth animal for that person.
It’s not a “I like, I think, I feel” thing. 15 years ago I would have not guessed the results in any way, though I should have.
From 0-450’ish yards in moderate wind conditions (broken terrain and 10’ish MPH wind) the 223/77gr TMK rules. There is nearly an identical hit rate for a 22CM or 22-250 level cartridge with a TMK or heavy ELD-M at sub 450y, but most people don’t practice enough with them to gain the ballistic advantage. However, past 450’ish to around 700-800 yards the 22CM/88gr ELD-M wins in hit rate- with a mid size 6mm using 105-115gr bullets being nearly neck and neck for it. The 6.5 is below all the aforementioned combos, however it still has a relatively high hit rate and is readily available.