.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Castle Rock]

How could you possibly know what my experience is????

You clearly stated you have no personal experience using the 223 on game

 

[Wrench]

The problem with bad examples lies in the evidence gathering. One can say the bullet failed, but to prove so would require recovery.....and often recovery shows that perhaps the bullet did it's job, but the operator may not have....

 

[Formidilosus]

Any idea on how the bullet performs out of a 12.5” barrel on game?

Very well. A little less temporary stretch cavity than at higher velocities, but still very good.

 

[Formidilosus]

Form, have you tested any of the other TMKs for performance on/in tissue? Any variations from what you've seen out of the 77gr 223?

Nope. TMK’s work well in all calibers. For like weight/size, TMK’s are similar, if not a bit deeper penetrating, than ELD-Ms

 

[HighUintas]

I'm not really understanding the "cheap high volume" practice argument in this. The Black hills 5.56 77gr tmk ammo is over $1/round.

My cost of my hunting rounds I load for my '06 is less than $0.60 per round.

 

[DJL2]

I just ordered 400 rounds of Hornady AG 140 OTM for my 6.5 CM at right around ~.70 per shipped to my door. Every time I've looked, I've yet to see anything comparable for the .223.

You can buy loaded ammo for .30-06 at that price, too, though likely not as nice as what you load. I've been working on a 208 grain ELD-M load in mine.

 

[204guy]

The .223 has to be 1 of my favorite cartridges. Not because of anything it does, it just pushes X bullet at Y velocity like 50 other cartridges. But its ability to ferret out whether someone can understand how little a cartridge has to do with killing something and how much the bullet does is simply amazing.

 

[Spoonbill]

I'm not really understanding the "cheap high volume" practice argument in this. The Black hills 5.56 77gr tmk ammo is over $1/round.

My cost of my hunting rounds I load for my '06 is less than $0.60 per round.

Recent events non withstanding, you could typically find 77 grain surplus ammo for close to that and didn’t have the time wrapped up in reloading. But I do see your point.

The high volume aspect also has to do with recoil. You can fire more rounds of 223/556 in a given range session than you can with an 06.

 

[dreamingWest]

Man, I've have a .223 bolt gun on my shopping list for awhile. I want it as an everyday trainer. After skimming through this thread, it's now at the top of the list.

I know Tikka is the Rokslide go-to. Anyone like the X-bolt .223s? It looks like I can get one factory threaded and they use a scaled action.

 

[DJL2]

Recent events non withstanding, you could typically find 77 grain surplus ammo for close to that and didn’t have the time wrapped up in reloading. But I do see your point.

The high volume aspect also has to do with recoil. You can fire more rounds of 223/556 in a given range session than you can with an 06.

I wish I lived somewhere that made recoil tolerance my LIMFAC at the range.

 

[AgentVenom]

Hello,
I just spent awhile reading through this thread. I’ve hunted for years and I do a lot of shooting reconstructions. I also did some “hunting” in far off lands for two legged prey that shoots back. I will say that when small caliber fast bullets work they work spectacularly. The 220 swift in particular I’ve seen drop big animals like they were struck by a lightning bolt. But when they hit “just off” they leave shallow big wounds that do not kill. They work because they dump a lot of energy, they also don’t work when they encounter resistance dumping said energy early. Shot placement is key but miss your mark just off and encounter heavy bone all bets are off.
Two biggest examples I’ve personally seen is my first hunting partner loved his 220 swift could drill dimes with the thing. He dropped more deer then I did. One year a deer spooked by something right as the shot broke and he drilled it in the shoulder. We tracked that deer for days. I eventually got it in late muzzleloader season and it was so gangrenous the meat was worthless. The shoulder was smashed but no penetration into the chest cavity.

second one was much more recent, a small dog was hit by a 6mm during hunting season. The shooter was a crack shot. But the bullet impacted the upper bone of the dogs leg. Made a very large wound even entered the chest cavity and part of the abdomen. But nothing hit anything vital.

I know this probably won’t change anyone’s mind but I like calibers 6.5+ for big game just because I’ve seen what happens when the universe aligns and your shot lands just a hair south of wrong. I won’t hunt with/ take out a new hunter unless they are using something in the 6.5+ range. I’ve learnt out my share of rifles. Meanwhile in the opposite camp my .338 WM has hit “off mark” a few times and cleared so much chest cavity real estate it didn’t matter.

 

[Lawnboi]

I'm not really understanding the "cheap high volume" practice argument in this. The Black hills 5.56 77gr tmk ammo is over $1/round.

My cost of my hunting rounds I load for my '06 is less than $0.60 per round.

You can thank the election, corona and the riots for that. Prior to this year I was able to buy hornady match by the case for 60 cents a round. 75g black for 8 bucks a box.

You can reload it for cheap though.

 

[fightthenoise]

Just FYI for reloading, the TMK's are a long pill and the Tikka magazines top out a 2.3" in the .223 factory mag. In my gun that's about 0.070" worth of jump at mag length. The factory TMK offerings are well shy of 2.3", somewhere around 2.245" or so, so the TMK must tolerate jump alright. You just give up a good deal of case capacity. It's a similar scenario with the 75 ELD-M's.

 

[KClark]

Hello,
I just spent awhile reading through this thread. I’ve hunted for years and I do a lot of shooting reconstructions. I also did some “hunting” in far off lands for two legged prey that shoots back. I will say that when small caliber fast bullets work they work spectacularly. The 220 swift in particular I’ve seen drop big animals like they were struck by a lightning bolt. But when they hit “just off” they leave shallow big wounds that do not kill. They work because they dump a lot of energy, they also don’t work when they encounter resistance dumping said energy early. Shot placement is key but miss your mark just off and encounter heavy bone all bets are off.
Two biggest examples I’ve personally seen is my first hunting partner loved his 220 swift could drill dimes with the thing. He dropped more deer then I did. One year a deer spooked by something right as the shot broke and he drilled it in the shoulder. We tracked that deer for days. I eventually got it in late muzzleloader season and it was so gangrenous the meat was worthless. The shoulder was smashed but no penetration into the chest cavity.

second one was much more recent, a small dog was hit by a 6mm during hunting season. The shooter was a crack shot. But the bullet impacted the upper bone of the dogs leg. Made a very large wound even entered the chest cavity and part of the abdomen. But nothing hit anything vital.

I know this probably won’t change anyone’s mind but I like calibers 6.5+ for big game just because I’ve seen what happens when the universe aligns and your shot lands just a hair south of wrong. I won’t hunt with/ take out a new hunter unless they are using something in the 6.5+ range. I’ve learnt out my share of rifles. Meanwhile in the opposite camp my .338 WM has hit “off mark” a few times and cleared so much chest cavity real estate it didn’t matter.

If you read the original post you'll notice this thread was started with the 223 shooting 77gr TMKs in mind, not hyper velocity lightweight slow twist bullets. That combo is a guaranteed shite show of poor penetration and massive surface tissue damage.

 

[Lawnboi]

Anyone have any specific reports of the 75eldm? Velocity @ impact? Ect

Shooting something with it might be a real possibility for me this year. Looking for more information. I know the gun will do it’s part farther than I’m willing to shoot something with a 223 at.

Iv got 350 75s, and the 223 is my only current hunting weight rifle. So it’s either shoot a couple mulies with the 223, or hump my 17 pound prs gun.

 

[TheGDog]

I haven't shot anything at any real distance yet with my .223 Rem bolt gun. But after observing the coyote I hit with a very rushed jumped-shot/snapshot opportunity... where the bullet likely hit the phalanges on his vertebrae above the spine by his shoulders... seeing him literally do a full 360 barrel-roll mid-air from that bad hit... then fall to the ground like a sack of potatoes, then rock back-and-forth... before eventually getting back up, looking back at me, then running... I have every confidence that if one placed the shot like normal with proper care it would have no problem taking a Mule Deer. As fast as his body whipped around on that barrel roll, I was shocked!

 

[Budda]

Wow. I’ve killed a few critters with a 223 but nothing the size of an elk.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

77gr tmk bang flop Wyoming mule deer.

Maybe 338 lapua will quarter it up and put it in the chilly bin... but till then the boomers will stay in the safe and we’ll continue with itty bitty varmint 22’s on this year’s dozen or so tags.

 

[cod0396]

Very well. A little less temporary stretch cavity than at higher velocities, but still very good.

When you say less TSC damage, is the actual wound channel smaller? I was under the impression that TSC was essentially the same as the permanent cavity in violently fragmenting bullets like the TMK.

 

[Formidilosus]

When you say less TSC damage, is the actual wound channel smaller? I was under the impression that TSC was essentially the same as the permanent cavity in violently fragmenting bullets like the TMK.

The temporary stretch cavity and permanent crush cavity will be more similar with fragmenting bullets than with non fragmenting such as monolithics, however the permanent cavity will be smaller than temporary in all.

In this specific case however, the wound from a bullet with 200-300fps less MV will produce smaller wounds at the same range as bullets launched faster.