.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Pharmseller]

My interpretation (having used neither, but having read the entire thread) is you do not need to switch, but the TMK is better enough that if you feel like switching it might be worth it.

Copy

The buck I killed this season dropped in his tracks but I spined him, so it wasn’t really a test.




P

 

[Reburn]

Better?

Damn.
I thought I was doing ok.
Thanks for the gut check.

 

[EDDAKA]

For those of us who do not roll our own……

Stand 1 Armory RCP 223 77gr Sierra Tipped Match King (TMK) - Stand 1 Armory

Stand 1 Armory 223 77gr Sierra TMK 77g Sierra Tipped Match King (long-range precision): These polymer tipped 77g Sierra TMK bullets buck the wind very well and produce extremely consistent results at distances out to one mile. These are the best long-range 223 bullets on the market, and are...

stand1armory.com

What’s velocity on this stuff?

 

[JohnnyB]

77gn Tmk in stock at Powder Valley. Free shipping over $200 order.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

Crucial.

And no, an extra .3 wouldn’t matter.

I’m already where I need to be, is the 77 TMK that much better that I should switch?




P

I kinda looked at it from a different angle. If you want to shoot the TMK, is your current load so good that if you gave up a little accuracy with the TMK would it matter? Heck if you get 1 MOA groups with the TMK, would that not work at the distances at which you would take bear, deer, elk and moose? Seems like 400 yards is about where you hit that 1800 FPS mark. 4 inches at 400 yards seems adequate.

 

[Pharmseller]

I kinda looked at it from a different angle. If you want to shoot the TMK, is your current load so good that if you gave up a little accuracy with the TMK would it matter? Heck if you get 1 MOA groups with the TMK, would that not work at the distances at which you would take bear, deer, elk and moose? Seems like 400 yards is about where you hit that 1800 FPS mark. 4 inches at 400 yards seems adequate.

Deer only here in Oregon.

My ELDM load falls below 1800 fps around 600 yards.

I‘m just asking about the difference in bullet performance.

Forgive me but I don’t see your point.





P

 

[Formidilosus]

Open question, but mainly directed to @Formidilosus

I have a great load using the 75 ELDM, mv 2915 fps. Is the 77 TMK superior in performance to the point that I should abandon the ELDM and start over with the 77 TMK?

No. I do prefer the wound channels and behavior of the 77gr TMK, but the ELD-M kills well and if I had ammo loaded with them, I would use them.

 

[KHntr]

Guess I can add another data point for the 88 ELDm and 223AI. If there are typos, my bad. It’s 2 am and I am having a gin before a shower after just walking in the house from a successful moose hunt.

Here in North East BC we have a pair of 2 day moose seasons - Oct 25/26 and Nov 10/11. Only open for spike/fork, tripalm, or ten points.
Had a pretty good idea of where I wanted to go for the day, same place as last year where myself and my hunting partner shot a pair of 2 points about 30 seconds apart. I poked an 88 ELDm through the shoulders of mine and he was down at the shot.

This year I had to cut a trail around a bunch of blowdown from forest fires this summer (well, actually they are still burning here where I was) so I didn’t get into the cutblock until 3:30pm.
4pm found a pretty reasonable bull about 600 yards out, but there was a lot of willow and alder between us so I cut some distance.
Tripalm 10 point walked into a small opening at 166 yards quartering to me so I put an 88 into the point of his shoulder. He three legged hopped about 10 yards, and was broadside so I gave him a second one through the lungs because I think that the shooting is the fun part.
Two or three wobbly steps and he went down.
1st one absolutely smashed the front knuckle to bits (that quarter folds in the middle when trying to move it around) and turned the onside lung to jelly. Second poke broke ribs on the entrance, both lungs gooey, and found part of the bullet in the muscle at the back of the offside shoulder. Some lead shrapnel was embedded in the ribs inside the cavity, but that could have been either shot.

 

[sierracharlie338]

Guess I can add another data point for the 88 ELDm and 223AI. If there are typos, my bad. It’s 2 am and I am having a gin before a shower after just walking in the house from a successful moose hunt.

Here in North East BC we have a pair of 2 day moose seasons - Oct 25/26 and Nov 10/11. Only open for spike/fork, tripalm, or ten points.
Had a pretty good idea of where I wanted to go for the day, same place as last year where myself and my hunting partner shot a pair of 2 points about 30 seconds apart. I poked an 88 ELDm through the shoulders of mine and he was down at the shot.

This year I had to cut a trail around a bunch of blowdown from forest fires this summer (well, actually they are still burning here where I was) so I didn’t get into the cutblock until 3:30pm.
4pm found a pretty reasonable bull about 600 yards out, but there was a lot of willow and alder between us so I cut some distance.
Tripalm 10 point walked into a small opening at 166 yards quartering to me so I put an 88 into the point of his shoulder. He three legged hopped about 10 yards, and was broadside so I gave him a second one through the lungs because I think that the shooting is the fun part.
Two or three wobbly steps and he went down.
1st one absolutely smashed the front knuckle to bits (that quarter folds in the middle when trying to move it around) and turned the onside lung to jelly. Second poke broke ribs on the entrance, both lungs gooey, and found part of the bullet in the muscle at the back of the offside shoulder. Some lead shrapnel was embedded in the ribs inside the cavity, but that could have been either shot.

Man that’s awesome congrats!!

 

[PNWGATOR]

Guess I can add another data point for the 88 ELDm and 223AI. If there are typos, my bad. It’s 2 am and I am having a gin before a shower after just walking in the house from a successful moose hunt.

Here in North East BC we have a pair of 2 day moose seasons - Oct 25/26 and Nov 10/11. Only open for spike/fork, tripalm, or ten points.
Had a pretty good idea of where I wanted to go for the day, same place as last year where myself and my hunting partner shot a pair of 2 points about 30 seconds apart. I poked an 88 ELDm through the shoulders of mine and he was down at the shot.

This year I had to cut a trail around a bunch of blowdown from forest fires this summer (well, actually they are still burning here where I was) so I didn’t get into the cutblock until 3:30pm.
4pm found a pretty reasonable bull about 600 yards out, but there was a lot of willow and alder between us so I cut some distance.
Tripalm 10 point walked into a small opening at 166 yards quartering to me so I put an 88 into the point of his shoulder. He three legged hopped about 10 yards, and was broadside so I gave him a second one through the lungs because I think that the shooting is the fun part.
Two or three wobbly steps and he went down.
1st one absolutely smashed the front knuckle to bits (that quarter folds in the middle when trying to move it around) and turned the onside lung to jelly. Second poke broke ribs on the entrance, both lungs gooey, and found part of the bullet in the muscle at the back of the offside shoulder. Some lead shrapnel was embedded in the ribs inside the cavity, but that could have been either shot.

Fantastic!!!!

Thank you for sharing your experience!

 

[roosiebull]

Crucial.

And no, an extra .3 wouldn’t matter.

I’m already where I need to be, is the 77 TMK that much better that I should switch?




P

Post #16 was pretty mind blowing to me. I can’t help you decide if you should switch, I know I’ll be launching tmk’s from my 223 just based off of the real world data points vs any other projectile… are they much better? No idea, but this thread has shown how effective the tmk is at 223 speed.

Until I read post #16 in the linked thread, I would always pick the little bit more accurate bullet, but moving forward I will pick the better projectile (granted I know what that is)

Why Match/Target Bullets For Hunting

This is going to be a barrage of questions. It will help to view me as a skeptic relative to the matter at hand. I am going to do some load development for my new 6mm Creed. I live in the southeast where shots are rarely taken at more than 100 yards. But, I fancy that I will take a trip out...

rokslide.com

 

[roosiebull]

Guess I can add another data point for the 88 ELDm and 223AI. If there are typos, my bad. It’s 2 am and I am having a gin before a shower after just walking in the house from a successful moose hunt.

Here in North East BC we have a pair of 2 day moose seasons - Oct 25/26 and Nov 10/11. Only open for spike/fork, tripalm, or ten points.
Had a pretty good idea of where I wanted to go for the day, same place as last year where myself and my hunting partner shot a pair of 2 points about 30 seconds apart. I poked an 88 ELDm through the shoulders of mine and he was down at the shot.

This year I had to cut a trail around a bunch of blowdown from forest fires this summer (well, actually they are still burning here where I was) so I didn’t get into the cutblock until 3:30pm.
4pm found a pretty reasonable bull about 600 yards out, but there was a lot of willow and alder between us so I cut some distance.
Tripalm 10 point walked into a small opening at 166 yards quartering to me so I put an 88 into the point of his shoulder. He three legged hopped about 10 yards, and was broadside so I gave him a second one through the lungs because I think that the shooting is the fun part.
Two or three wobbly steps and he went down.
1st one absolutely smashed the front knuckle to bits (that quarter folds in the middle when trying to move it around) and turned the onside lung to jelly. Second poke broke ribs on the entrance, both lungs gooey, and found part of the bullet in the muscle at the back of the offside shoulder. Some lead shrapnel was embedded in the ribs inside the cavity, but that could have been either shot.

That is both awesome and impressive!

 

[BCsteve]

Nice bull and great pics!

 

[Tahr]

Deer only here in Oregon.

My ELDM load falls below 1800 fps around 600 yards.

I‘m just asking about the difference in bullet performance.

Forgive me but I don’t see your point.





P

At similar fps if you cant kill a deer with a 73 to 80 grn ELDM you wont with a 77TMK. The TMK isn't magic. Accuracy over cult factor every day.

 

[eric1115]

At similar fps if you cant kill a deer with a 73 to 80 grn ELDM you wont with a 77TMK. The TMK isn't magic. Accuracy over cult factor every day.

Conversely, if you can't kill a deer with a 1.5 MOA TMK you won't with a .75 MOA ELD. Terminal performance over meaningless difference in precision every day.

For the record I think your statement is substantially true as well. Both bullets kill well, and let's be realistic about how much precision is really required.

 

[Tahr]

Conversely, if you can't kill a deer with a 1.5 MOA TMK you won't with a .75 MOA ELD. Terminal performance over meaningless difference in precision every day.

For the record I think your statement is substantially true as well. Both bullets kill well, and let's be realistic about how much precision is really required.

Yes I can agree with that.
For me supreme accuracy gives me confidence - a mind thing.

I don't think that the TMK's are over-touted because I know through a lot of experience since they were first introduced that they are very good. But I also know that the ELDM's and some Berger jacketed custom bullets kill just as well.

I'm certain that if I put up a series of photos of terminal damage from the 3 classes of bullets I have mentioned of similar weight no one would be able to tell the difference.

Ive shot over 40 deer with the .223 this year. About 15 with TMK. The rest with 80 grn Berger jacketed customs and some 60 grn Hammers. Out to 400 odd yards. I couldn't pick the best performer. A reservation is that I haven't shot one with the Hammers over about 250 yards so I dont know how they will perform at a decent range.

No deer went further than performing what I call the ".223 stagger" or a brief death rush before tipping over. Most were lung or shoulder shot.

 

[wind gypsy]

At similar fps if you cant kill a deer with a 73 to 80 grn ELDM you wont with a 77TMK. The TMK isn't magic. Accuracy over cult factor every day.

75 ELDm is going to retain velocity and buck wind better too.

 

[swavescatter]

IMR 8208 XBR Powder - Smokeless Reloading (8 lb)

The IMR 8208 XBR powder is a super short grained, extruded powder that meters very well. Shop the latest and greatest reloading supplies at Midsouth Shooters.

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

 

[TX_Diver]

IMR 8208 XBR Powder - Smokeless Reloading (8 lb)

The IMR 8208 XBR powder is a super short grained, extruded powder that meters very well. Shop the latest and greatest reloading supplies at Midsouth Shooters.

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

Gone. 7 min after you posted.

May pop up at other spots though so keep an eye out if anyone is looking.

 

[Ibex]

It popped back up as in stock. Ordered 1. Looking forward to trying it out.