.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

[h2so4]

Black Hill 5.56 77gr TMK in stock at Bone Frog.

Honestly, I should buy some. But I don’t see me hunting with 223/5.56 anytime so you all might as well clean them out of their stock!

5.56 77GR Black Hills Tipped Match King TMK (D556N19)

5.56 77GR Black Hills Tipped Match King TMK (D556N19) Black Hills' focus is on handcrafting ammunition for serious folks who demand it works every time without fail. No magic loads. No gimmickry. They are certainly not well versed in corporate speak either. Instead, they stake our reputation on...

www.bonefroggunclub.com

Anyone on the fence about getting the black hills 77gr tmk should go ahead and get it now while it’s available. It won’t be made for a good while now. What exactly a while is, I’m not sure. But the previous dry spell was 8-12 months (if not longer, I don’t have the exact dates at the moment).
Especially at these prices. Expecting a price increase later this year.

 

[Drenalin]

Saw a couple more whitetails hit with the 73 ELD-M yesterday, both around 150 yards. One was a spine hit, no vitals, and required a cleanup shot. The other was a good hit, with the deer running about 50 yards before expiring. Bullet traveled through lungs into offside shoulder with the amount of damage (read borderline excessive) I’ve come to expect from this bullet.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

Long time lurker...time to add a data point.

First off I have followed the thread since the fist few posts and have read it in entirety a couple times over the last couple years. I update the thread daily during hunting season also.

I typically hunt ridge areas and fields in NWGA. Shots range from 10-400yds. I prefer to carry my 10.5" 300 Blackout suppressed SBR, 1-4 scope, with Barnes Tac-Tx as it is easy to carry, does not require ear pro and has never let me down. It has also has yet to require a tracking job more than 30yds. I am comfortable with a 250yd shot with this setup.

I am a AR15 hobbyist. I like the ergos, Im comfortable with one and I shoot them often from 10-300yds in various positions at my local rifle club. For all the reasons pointed out in this thread I gravitate towards 223/556 but I still hunt with my 300BO.

The new area I am hunting this year is so thick plus leaves have been late to fall that my Vortex 1-4 just isnt doing it.....I missed a couple doe opportunities recently. I did not have time to swap optics so I took my 10.5" red dot equipped 556 house gun with 73ELDs out on Christmas eve morning to get those does I missed the previous outing.

Well less than an hour in the 180lb +/- 7point we call Loki that Ive been watching on camera for 6 months comes in to about 40yds stopping in one of the very, very few shooting lanes available in this spot. In the 10sec transaction he took a 73 ELD in center of chest, turned with tail down and slowly trotted off. I felt like it was a good hit and thought I heard him crash down the North (steep) side hill out of sight. I waited an hour to get down.....alone with my thoughts.

Once I got down to find him I found ZERO blood or hair.....nothing. I was sick. Looked for 1.5hrs before calling in the dog and help. Dog found him in 5min, buried in a ravine head down 30yd from where he was hit. We drug him an hour out of the ridges to where a vehicle could access for the remaining haul.

We do gutless processing, were wore out and were in a hurry to say the least so no necropsy pics. Opening him up he was full of blood, I assume the heart was destroyed and pumping it into the chest cavity.

Soooo.....It work and worked well at killing a mature buck. Maybe better than my beloved barnes 110s. It did not leave any blood to track and in this area thats a problem without a good dog. I will try the 77TMK before our season is over

View attachment 651474View attachment 651475View attachment 651476View attachment 651477

We shot one in the chest with a 25-06 this year, no blood trail. I think your issue, and mine, was shot placement, and not bullet used.

 

[Tahr]

I tried to search and yielded nothing. And since this thread has the most comprehensive collection of 223 data/experiences, has any on tried the Nosler 224 64gr Protected Point Bonded Solid Base?
View attachment 652279

Here you go. 64 grn BSB. Shot at 200 yards down hill. Quartering towards me and hit in front of chest. Ran about 60 yards. My dog found it and I dont recall any blood trail. Good angled penetration and exit through the lungs and paunch. The exit was narrow but I was quite satisfied with the performance. 1:9 twist barrel. 3000fps MV. Handload. Pics: Deer with rifle. Exit. Pointing to entry. Exit and dog.

 

[roosiebull]

I may be odd man out here, but I have never cared about or relied on blood trails in all of my rifle hunting, I can’t recall trying to get on one aside from a couple misses as a precaution before walking away

The vast majority of my hunting is done within 2 miles of the ocean on the Oregon coast in the really bad brush zone (a few miles east it gets a little better in general)

Blood trails have never seemed very reliable with a bullet ime, though sometimes I will be surprised with just a mess. That aspect of the 223 doesn’t bother me at all, and I figured my experience was a generalization, but I see it’s not

One thing I have always valued a lot is getting back on target fast, my first rifle critter was a blacktail buck that I shot in the base of the neck and watched him fall faster than gravity in the scope (first rifle I bought was a 7-08 and put a fixed 4x leupold on it)

That has stood out to me for ever, but I will always pick 2 bullets on target vs a blood trail with a firearm

Bear are the only critters that I would like a blood trail on, and coincidentally they are the least likely to get one regardless, but they are always close to a complete shithole and don’t stand around dazed like deer and elk when shot, they haul ass into the worst habitat around and don’t leave as defined tracks like a hooved animal, but it doesn’t seem to matter what you shoot them with, they either barely bleed or create a horror scene, but if the shot is good, you can be pretty confident they aren’t far, they have no will to live with damaged lungs… also why I don’t get fancy on shot angles with bear, I want a good angle on both lungs, and they need to be static or I’m not shooting… a wounded bear in dense brush is over rated, I have been there and don’t care to repeat it (and it was a braked rifle and in that situation I couldn’t wear ear pro and had to shoot that rifle twice without ear protection)

I’m not too concerned about blood trails, I’ve never expected them with a rifle, but I do value well placed shots, staying on target and fast follow up shots.

Unfortunately a 223 isn’t legal for elk here, so I need to figure out something else for my daughter, I’m thinking a compact rokstok and either rebarreling my 308 to a 6creed or getting her an 8 twist 243 and keeping the 308 (most likely) but she’ll be using my 223 for spring bear, and I’ll be using it for all of my rifle hunting

 

[Tahr]

2nd deer as above re 64grn BSB. 290 yards. Full penetration shoulder shot. Ran 80 yards steep down hill and ended up in terrible place so no autopsy pics, But again, good enough performance. No blood trail at all and wouldn't have found him without my dog. Bullet entry marked on pic with dog.

 

[SamsonMan22]

I value watching the impact through the scope way more than a blood trail even in thick heavy cover. I have had plenty of well hit animals with larger cartridges leave no blood trail even with multiple hits. I have also had bullets/ cartridges leave great blood trails that resulted in long incapacitation times. The fast killing ability of the 77tmk plus the low recoil of the 223 is way more valuable than a blood trail for me. If they die within a few yards a blood trail isn’t needed and the 223 is such an easy shooter the ability to put the bullet in the right spot and see it happen tends to not let them go far.

 

[TexasHTR]

73 eld-m, ~2525 impact velocity, 100# west TX WT doe, 35 yard run, pic is exit side

 

[Moosehunter]

So it begins...

 

[ericacymcdonald]

I hope this transfers over to the archery world soon, I want a flagship bow with 34" ATA and 7" brace height for accuracy in the field over all the new speed bows

 

[SteveFlock]

I hope this transfers over to the archery world soon, I want a flagship bow with 34" ATA and 7" brace height for accuracy in the field over all the new speed bows

So why not the Mathews Atlas. In fact it has a larger brace heigh and is still fast.

 

[Nomosendero]

?

 

[sveltri]

I may be odd man out here, but I have never cared about or relied on blood trails in all of my rifle hunting, I can’t recall trying to get on one aside from a couple misses as a precaution before walking away

The vast majority of my hunting is done within 2 miles of the ocean on the Oregon coast in the really bad brush zone (a few miles east it gets a little better in general)

Blood trails have never seemed very reliable with a bullet ime, though sometimes I will be surprised with just a mess. That aspect of the 223 doesn’t bother me at all, and I figured my experience was a generalization, but I see it’s not

One thing I have always valued a lot is getting back on target fast, my first rifle critter was a blacktail buck that I shot in the base of the neck and watched him fall faster than gravity in the scope (first rifle I bought was a 7-08 and put a fixed 4x leupold on it)

That has stood out to me for ever, but I will always pick 2 bullets on target vs a blood trail with a firearm

Bear are the only critters that I would like a blood trail on, and coincidentally they are the least likely to get one regardless, but they are always close to a complete shithole and don’t stand around dazed like deer and elk when shot, they haul ass into the worst habitat around and don’t leave as defined tracks like a hooved animal, but it doesn’t seem to matter what you shoot them with, they either barely bleed or create a horror scene, but if the shot is good, you can be pretty confident they aren’t far, they have no will to live with damaged lungs… also why I don’t get fancy on shot angles with bear, I want a good angle on both lungs, and they need to be static or I’m not shooting… a wounded bear in dense brush is over rated, I have been there and don’t care to repeat it (and it was a braked rifle and in that situation I couldn’t wear ear pro and had to shoot that rifle twice without ear protection)

I’m not too concerned about blood trails, I’ve never expected them with a rifle, but I do value well placed shots, staying on target and fast follow up shots.

Unfortunately a 223 isn’t legal for elk here, so I need to figure out something else for my daughter, I’m thinking a compact rokstok and either rebarreling my 308 to a 6creed or getting her an 8 twist 243 and keeping the 308 (most likely) but she’ll be using my 223 for spring bear, and I’ll be using it for all of my rifle hunting

Same boat here in CO, I’ve got an 8 twist tikka 243 transitioning into 243 ai as we speak.

 

[roosiebull]

Same boat here in CO, I’ve got an 8 twist tikka 243 transitioning into 243 ai as we speak.

Caliber affirming care

 

[Steve300xcw]

I may be odd man out here, but I have never cared about or relied on blood trails in all of my rifle hunting, I can’t recall trying to get on one aside from a couple misses as a precaution before walking away

Same here, not something I have worried about. Only blood trail that was actually impressive was from a grendel lol. I will add that most things when shot properly dont require any tracking

 

[roosiebull]

Same here, not something I have worried about. Only blood trail that was actually impressive was from a grendel lol. I will add that most things when shot properly dont require any tracking

Off the top of my head, I can only recall long track jobs on 2 rifle shot bear, one recovered after a sketchy encounter in the brush the next morning, and one wasn’t recovered… of all the deer and elk I’ve seen shot, I don’t recall a single long track job… there may have been one in there somewhere, but I can’t recall it.

I have seen a few less than perfect first shots, but have always ended in a fairly quick follow up to get things back on track

I have seen a couple rodeos, but the animals didn’t make it far, but It just wasn’t pretty and efficient… maybe the next critter I shoot will mess up that role, but I know if so, it won’t be the cartridge’s or bullet’s fault.

The more I shoot the tikka 223, the more I feel like it will be hard to miss. Reminds me of a 17hmr… just can’t miss

 

[Steve300xcw]

Off the top of my head, I can only recall long track jobs on 2 rifle shot bear, one recovered after a sketchy encounter in the brush the next morning, and one wasn’t recovered… of all the deer and elk I’ve seen shot, I don’t recall a single long track job… there may have been one in there somewhere, but I can’t recall it.

I have seen a few less than perfect first shots, but have always ended in a fairly quick follow up to get things back on track

I have seen a couple rodeos, but the animals didn’t make it far, but It just wasn’t pretty and efficient… maybe the next critter I shoot will mess up that role, but I know if so, it won’t be the cartridge’s or bullet’s fault.

The more I shoot the tikka 223, the more I feel like it will be hard to miss. Reminds me of a 17hmr… just can’t miss

I've had 2. Made a bad shot on a bear an never found it, I dont think caliber woulda mattered there....And had a rodeo with a buck a a 243. Considering the hole in the bottom of that SOB it shoulda bled....ALOT.....but it didnt..


Also for your kid look at brownells. Howa mini barreled action in 6arc/grendel/whatever. Would make a sweet lil rifle in a CF stock.....

 

[northernalpine]

Took a while to work my through all of this thread; impressive collection of data and logical approach to using a smaller caliber matched with ballistic parameters for a variety of game.

Thanks to all those that posted pics, load data, links, and humor…”mouse turds” and “tacos” has kept a smile on my face for a couple of days now.

 

[roosiebull]

I've had 2. Made a bad shot on a bear an never found it, I dont think caliber woulda mattered there....And had a rodeo with a buck a a 243. Considering the hole in the bottom of that SOB it shoulda bled....ALOT.....but it didnt..


Also for your kid look at brownells. Howa mini barreled action in 6arc/grendel/whatever. Would make a sweet lil rifle in a CF stock.....

I recall another situation, which led me to getting my first 223 (sig m400 predator)

I called in a lion one afternoon, he came all the way to the call through a little band of salmonberry and I didn’t see him until it was sneaking back up the hill away from me.

It was 37yds, federal fusion out of my kimber 7-08, super steep hill, so the shot angle was like shooting straight down from a tree stand, I aimed just left of spine, right behind the shoulder blade, exit would be right between the front legs

I took the shot, and it went straight down and started rolling around in the brush snarling, this is where inexperience at the time got me, I just watched waiting for him to quit moving rather than racking the bolt (I knew better but didn’t) and all of a sudden he comes out of the brush, paused for a second, then trotted off as I worked the bolt

I assume I shot at 6:30-ish in the evening, late April. I hurried across the draw to see if I could catch it moving off.

Below me was a big swamp, and in this section of swamp it was solid 7’ saw grass with reprod on one side and solid salmonberry on the other

When I got over there I heard something rustle a little by a dead alder about 50yds out in the swamp, but didn’t know if it was the lion I shot, birds, beaver, etc… it wasn’t much

Now I go back to look for blood, thinking I must have an exit, I go back to where it was and I see no blood, but it reeks like cat piss (go figure)

I get on the track and follow it down to the edge of the swamp, mark that spot then watch the swamp edge to see if I can get lucky and catch its tracks (not looking forward to wading around in the zero visibility saw grass with only a bolt gun)

I walk that trail, it’s pretty soft and the cat just didn’t go that way, so back to the trail I marked hoping to find blood

Long story short I walked around that swamp until dark and didn’t find any sign of the cat, it stormed that night but I already knew I didn’t have a blood trail

I came back the next day and gridded the whole swamp for 8hrs using my tracker on onX, then walked every trail I could find on both sides… nothing

I looked every day for 6 days, last night I was on my way down to the south coast for a work stretch where I would be on the ocean for a week…

I glassed from the top looking for birds and listening like I had every day, then dropped down into the swamp like I had every day… as soon as I got down there I flushed a couple buzzards… there were 2 half circling and one that didn’t want to leave that same dead alder I heard something by, but I had focused that first night and next morning there… couldn’t be, I scoured that area.

What I couldn’t see was as I walked each side of that creek, there was a little 6’ island, so I thought I covered both sides of the creek right there thoroughly, but that cat ended up dying right there on a little tiny island, and with it all being over head high saw grass, I just couldn’t see there was a little island there, I had track lines within 5’ on all sides, but with the terrain I couldn’t see that there was a coffin size island.

The bullet went in, clipped the back of the scapula, and the bullet got caught in the hide inside the right leg… I didn’t cut it open to see if I got one lung or 2, but it made it 111yds from the shot… a blood trail would have really helped me there… worst case scenario got me there, but instantly chambering another round would have completely changed the outcome, such a dumb mistake I’ll never make again, now it’s instant, I don’t care if it dumps in the scope, I am running the bolt just in case

I did switch to an AR for lions after that for awhile, and the next big Tom I called in I lit up, I put 4 rounds in him before he could do anything, 77gr smk’s, and he didn’t get far.. 3 were in the chest cavity then one steep quartered away shot as he tried to flee, and I knew he was toast, which was nice because it was zero visibility dog hair reprod tracking, and I was glad to not have a maybe dead big ass lion to track

For reference, this is the swamp

 

[Hondo64d]

Shot a small whitetail doe this evening at 413 yards with a 77gr TMK launched at 2978 fps from my .22GT. Mild load. Impact velocity should have been about 2125 fps. Double lung shot. Bullet hit a rib on the way in and on exit. Damage to lungs was substantial. External exit wound in the hide was about nickel sized. She ran 50 yards, wobbled for a few seconds and called it quits. I didn’t investigate the blood trail because I saw where she fell and went right to her, but she was spraying a significant amount of blood where she fell. Below are pics of internal entrance and exit.

John