.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

[Pharmseller]

Remind me again of your load recipe for the Tikkas, please.



P

 

[Formidilosus]

Do you find 20" to be optimal for this setup? I was trying to decide between 18.5" or 20"

The shorter the better. Length is determined by desired or required range.

 

[Moose83]

The shorter the better. Length is determined by desired or required range.

What kind of range do you get with a 20" at your elevation?

 

[JBradley500]

Empty handed the first year trying the 77 TMK in my handloads. I saw a lot of doe and a couple of small buck, but nothing I wanted to use my tag on. A Tikka in the woods it still a beautiful sight to me even without taking any shots. Maybe next year!

 

[Backpack Hunter]

The 69 Grain TMK doesn't get much attention here. Have any of you used it on deer? My Savage Lightweight Hunter 223 seems like it pretty well in initial testing with 25.4 grains of CFE223.

I've only shot two deer with the 69gr TMK. One doe, 65 yards broadside high shoulder shot, dropped instantly, insides were a slurry, small exit. Second buck, 1 yard broadside, low heart shot, ran 50 yards, no blood trail, no heart left, no exit.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

Second buck, 1 yard broadside,

Ok, you damn well know that you can't hang something like that out there with no details.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

62 grain TBBC, roughly 150 yards-right behind the ear-bang, flop
View attachment 489536

Where did you get the TBBC?

 

[Jake Leibke]

Finally… caught up on all the reading on this thread. Learned a lot. Thanks to all who posted with actual knowledge and experience.

I’ve had experience before shooting coyotes with a 223, not favorable with a 16” barrel and 55 vmax but once I put a 20” barrel on had good results. These results led me to not even consider the 223 for big game let alone another bullet option for it. Fast forward to the end of 132 pages of this thread excited to try out some other bullet options. Mainly the 69 TMK or 73 ELD M as I currently have a 1-9 barrel.

Seems like if you stay within the velocity threshold of the bullet and use a bullet with good terminal ballistics they perform.

I watched several YouTube videos with ballistic gel and the would cavity with the TMK or ELD M bullets we’re very similar in size coming out of a 223 or a 308. Very eye opening.

Also I thought the amount of energy the bullet produced at a given range would aid in penetration but this has also been proven wrong.

The attached video I think is very good and he also has a lot of other videos that were very good with ballistics gel.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

No, I’m not saying that at all. I am saying that our belief of what minimum is, is due for an update. I am also not saying that I believe that the 223 is awesome for elk- it is incredibly effective on deer and bear sized animals, to the point where I have chosen to use LESS destructive bullets on anything I’m going to eat, but I haven’t seen enough results from elk to say it’s “great”. But I will.

The 223 with the best bullets is more effective than muzzle loaders or any arrow.

Put that into perspective. If Colorado came up and said during archery or muzzle loader seasons hunters may use 22 cal centerfires as well- the whole world explode. Not because it ‘s a 223, but because it’s a rifle and when viewed in that vain we intuitively know it’s more effective. The most cursory thought comes to the conclusion that many more elk would be killed, and the wounding rate wouldn’t go up any, and in fact would most likely go down.

Going back and reading through this again, I want to revisit this post.

You have 3 1/2 more years of experience on elk now. Would you say it's great, and if so what qualifiers would you put on it?

 

[Formidilosus]

What kind of range do you get with a 20" at your elevation?

Right at 600 yards at 5k ft DA.

 

[Formidilosus]

Going back and reading through this again, I want to revisit this post.

You have 3 1/2 more years of experience on elk now. Would you say it's great, and if so what qualifiers would you put on it?

I have no reservations with the 77gr TMK and elk to 1,800fps or so. It’s extremely effective. You won’t get many exits with body shots, however they don’t go far and bone is no issue. Even with bad shots it is quite effective.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

Ok, you damn well know that you can't hang something like that out there with no details.

It was actually my daughter who shot it. We were sitting next to each other, with me on her right side, and it came into view about 60 yards out. She shouldered the rifle, and it proceeded to walk directly at her at a pretty steady pace. At about 4 feet, it went around her to the left, and she shot it about a foot away from the end of the barrel. Girl has nerves of steel, I would have probably shot when we first saw it.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

I have no reservations with the 77gr TMK and elk to 1,800fps or so. It’s extremely effective. You won’t get many exits with body shots, however they don’t go far and bone is no issue. Even with bad shots it is quite effective.

Can you give me a little more to help me understand the "bad shots" comment?

 

[Formidilosus]

Can you give me a little more to help me understand the "bad shots" comment?

Elk, especially when suppressed, don’t flat out run like a whitetail does when shot. With gut shots, they go 100’ish yards and lay down. Hits to the pelvis/femur and they drop. There is “no margin of error” on bigger guns. The same reactions are happening regardless of caliber, the only difference being the bullet and impact velocity.

What I meant by the first “bad shots” comment, is that this idea that “it’ll work when everything is perfect, but not when a bad shot happens”, is nonsense. With the couple of bad hits we’ve seen, the reaction of the animal has not been discernibly different from big calibers except that the elk tend not to move as far after the hit, regardless of placement.

 

[Pharmseller]

Remind me again of your load recipe for the Tikkas, please.



P

Take a 77gr TMK, put 23.7gr (or 23.5or 23.3gr) of 8208 in a case (any case), with any standard SR primer, seat it to 2.26” COAL, shoot. That’s it. That combo has shot well in every single 223/5.56 we’ve tried it in.

Okay, probably this, on page 51.




P

 

[Formidilosus]

Okay, probably this, on page 51.

Yes.

 

[jermck]

If only I could find some 8208.......

 

[Pharmseller]

Yes.

Muzzle velocity about 2850?





P

 

[Formidilosus]

Muzzle velocity about 2850?

P

22” barrel, 2,840 +/- 20fps.

 

[Axlrod]

If only I could find some 8208.......

You any where close to S.W. Montana?