22 Creedmoor Custom Build - Do I Send It Back???

[Stocky]

My veiw is as above you could risk it trying to have them fix it but t and I don't know a gunsmith that wouldn't understand what the average person is asking for when they say throated for 88s. If they weren't sure it should have been clarified with you. Will it make a difference? Probably not depending on powder choice. Do you have a plan for powder? I'd not be impressed and would probably look for another smith personally as attention to details a pretty critical trait I want my smith to have. I'd just shoot it and see how it goes knowing I'd make sure Id send a dummy round and clarify with the smith before hand.

 

[TxLite]

Personally I say shoot it. I don’t think you are going to be giving much up if anything. But if it’s not what you wanted I’d give him a call and see what he says.

It’s a little late now but for future builds you should send in a couple of dummy rounds for how you intend to load for it. Most gunsmiths I’ve worked with have asked for dummies when trying to throat a barrel for a specific bullet.

If you are going to move forward with asking him to fix it I would definitely load up 3 dummies to send with it.

 

[SDHNTR]

That’s not what I wanted to hear, but thank you.

Or…. If he’s really good, and if you’re really that unhappy, the fix is a new barrel. Which he may volunteer, if you express why you’re not satisfied. But again, I’d want to see a chamber print for firm numbers to start with.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

If they weren't sure it should have been clarified with you.

THIS. All it takes is a smith simply checking in to verify any confusion, if there is any, to make a happy(ier) customer in most cases.

 

[WKR]

I personally wouldn't be happy with the bearing surface of the bullet well past the "donut" or unsized portion of the neck. On virgin brass or factory loaded ammo its not a concern, but as time goes by and you have multiple firings on the brass, its something to be aware of.

And with a custom order chamber I wouldn't be happy with it. But if you didn't send a dummy round in then I'm not sure if you have any recourse. I typically like to send in a dummy round with the bearing surface about 20 thou in front of the neck shoulder junction if the magazine allows for it.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

But if you didn't send a dummy round in then I'm not sure if you have any recourse.

IMHO, if someone says they wanted it throated for a specific bullet it should at minimum be able to be seated for the boat tail and the shoulder junction (not stuffed way in). Sounds like both parties weren't as clear as they could have been but it sure seems like the smith just cut the chamber normal without any regard to the requested throating for the bullet doesn't it? I'd be displeased as a customer on this one that it came this way without any clarification.

 

[Firth]

It's loaded to 2.66" to jam. in what magazine is that anywhere near a COAL concern?

None. Something around 2.8 is as short as I'm aware of. I don't think it's ideal, but not a showstopper.

For the 22 creed it's tough to run out of magazine space, but if the distance to rifling is too far you might not have as much of the bullet shank in the casing as you want if you're trying to get close to the rifling. Again, not saying that's likely but I suspect that foul up has been made at least a few times.

 

[wind gypsy]

None. Something around 2.8 is as short as I'm aware of. I don't think it's ideal, but not a showstopper.

For the 22 creed it's tough to run out of magazine space, but if the distance to rifling is too far you might not have as much of the bullet shank in the casing as you want if you're trying to get close to the rifling. Again, not saying that's likely but I suspect that foul up has been made at least a few times.

I highly doubt there are many if any 22 Creedmoor reamers in the wild with too much freebore for an 88. SAAMI looks to be around 0.080. The dedicated 223 reamers for 88s I've seen are around 0.230" freebore. There's a big gap between 0.080 and 0.230.

 

[BBob]

The dedicated 223 reamers for 88s I've seen are around 0.230" freebore.

That's only because of the short neck on the 223, the 22CM doesn't need anywhere near .230" to keep 88's away from neck/shoulder junction. .150" ish will keep the 88's ~.050" above the neck/shoulder. Couldn't go wrong with up to .170" either. Either will work in a std 2.8" mag box or std length mag.

 

[wind gypsy]

That's only because of the short neck on the 223, the 22CM doesn't need anywhere near .230" to keep 88's away from neck/shoulder junction. .150" ish will keep the 88's ~.050" above the neck/shoulder. Couldn't go wrong with up to .170" either. Either will work in a std 2.8" mag box or std length mag.

Yep, i considered that with the 223 specs. The thing I have wondered before - if that is enough neck engagement on a 223, why wouldn't it be for a 22 creed? Everyone seems set on seating the bullet all the way to neck shoulder junction when spec'ing a reamer but why do you need to? I can understand less flexibility to chase eroding lands but if a guy isn't a lands chaser and isn't afraid of a healthy jump, it seems longer freebore could still offer some more performance or same performance at less pressure.

 

[BBob]

It'd be fine (even longer FB) on the CM. If mag length allows I shoot for .050" above. Why? Random even number that seems about right and gives a little leeway back With .150" the 75 TMK is a bit higher than the 88 above neck shoulder but still IMO completely usable. I also don't worry much about a bullet being below the neck/shoulder if mag length dictates it. A field rifle doesn't seem to care. So many bullets shoot great with a lot of jump so a big long FB is fine too I think for reasons you stated. Insisting on touching lands for a field rifle is over rated I think. Back to the 223. I also believe that the .230" FB is also an attempt to maximize case capacity trying to shoot heavies in it.

 

[khuber84]

That's only because of the short neck on the 223, the 22CM doesn't need anywhere near .230" to keep 88's away from neck/shoulder junction. .150" ish will keep the 88's ~.050" above the neck/shoulder. Couldn't go wrong with up to .170" either. Either will work in a std 2.8" mag box or std length mag.

Alpha made their 169fb reamer for 88s. I just picked up my barrel Tuesday that was cut with that exact reamer. Touching lands I'd say I might have 20k ahead of the nk shoulder junction. Personally I think a 190-200fb would be about right, as I usually find myself jumping eldm bullets 40-50k.

 

[Mike D Texas]

Not a concern for too long, but way down into the powder. I figured throating for long heavies would mean seating at the neck shoulder junction for the top of the boat tail.

I run pretty warm loads typically so I would assume that’s better in general. At some point my 223 custom loads approach this barrel burner if I’m leaving velocity on the table.

I would want it that way anyway. Not so much for the extra powder volume but to get the bearing surface above the n/s junction. You will eventually have a donut in there and it’s just less hassle to deal with when throated properly.

You can ask your gunsmith to use a throating reamer and lengthen it or you can rent one from 4D rentals and do it yourself.

This is one reason I spec and buy my own reamers because I’m anal about getting all dimensions where I want them.


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[BBob]

You have quite a bit of difference from where mine ended up with 88's. I have both a .150" and .170" FB from JGS and either is fine with std length mags, .200" would be pushing OAL and box length @ 2.8" OAL. If you know you want to jump them then It'd be fine,

 

[Mike D Texas]

The fix is the gunsmith running a throating reamer into one of the most critical parts of the chamber - maybe turning it by hand so he doesn’t have to remove the barrel. You have to hope he does it straight, and that his throating reamer is well made to the correct diameter, and it has a pilot that actually fits the bore.

Personally, the fix seems more prone to error with less accuracy than shooting as is.

Eh, I lengthened the throat on my 223 Tikka with a throating reamer and it shoots just fine.

There’s over 200fps of velocity spread from bottom to top in that group.


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[khuber84]

You have quite a bit of difference from where mine ended up with 88's. I have both a .150" and .170" FB from JGS and either is fine with std length mags, .200" would be pushing OAL and box length @ 2.8" OAL.

I mean what's wrong with oal over 2.8"? Wyatts makes boxes that's a 2.99 for 308/creed body cases. Hawkins hunter mags are 2.85, mdt polymer and magpul are around 2.88 internal. Accurate mags without hinder plate are 2.95", coal of 2.8 is nothing to worry about.

 

[amassi]

To the op
If it were me, I’d go shoot it, it probably shoots great. Burn the barrel up and if you feel performance was somehow impacted by your throat send a dummy round with the next barrel order.


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[khuber84]

Nothing but if you are using DBM's for a CM then they are 2.8" ish. The magnum DBM's like the Curtis are 2.9" but feed lips are too wide for the CM cases.

If you get a polymer of binder plate mag, yes you can be limited to 2.85-2.88. I run 65cm at 2.94" coal in ARC aics and AW mags all the time. Accurate and mdt also offer 2.9+ internal without the binder plate.

 

[khuber84]

To the OP, did you send in a dummy round for the chamber to be fitted? Did you just ask for it to be throated for 88s? If I have a particular bullet in mind I send in 3 dummy rounds with the bullet seated in the neck position I want touching lands. He usually gets it's within +-0.005. To me, it looks like you got something based on the proposed 22 creed saami reamer which is around 0.080 freebore. That saami neck is also too thin if you plan to use necked down lapua 6cm brass without turning. Alpha used a 258nk.

I'd personally want at least 130k freebore, and if 77tmk and 88eldn were my designeted fodder I'd want it 160+.

 

[BBob]

Initially all I cared about for the 88 was setting the bearing surface .050" above the neck/shoulder. That gave me a FB of .170" at 2.770" OAL touching lands. Works for me in any mag or box I have. If you want to use a longer FB go for it. I didn't need any longer.

I'll add to anyone that reads this is my reamer is also based on the very typical 1-30-0 (one and one half degrees) throat angle, if your reamer is anything different then the FB numbers no longer apply.

Also applies to my batch of ELD-M's. Anyone that's played this game long enough knows how bullet dimensions can change over time. What you have today may not be the same as tomorrow or may not be the same as what the other guy may have.