21 Years Old...

[bmart2622]

Laws are only as good as the people willing to follow them.

 

[mtnwrunner]

Been keeping up with this thread as it goes along. Wow.
As you can all see, this issue is HUGE. And I really really mean HUGE. I am actually surprised at some of the views here on rokslide. Lets not make any mistakes we can't recover from.........
Some of you are really fluent in expressing your views in text and I have problems in doing that. My first and strongest reaction in all this is that of pure ANGER. Turns my stomach with what all those kids went through and it turns my stomach that once again, MY freedom and liberty is under attack......and attack is exactly what it is. The big question is, "what's the answer?" I sure don't know but I do know what isn't. Guns are once again not the issue.......it's the people who shouldn't have them are the issue.
How about the proposal that we limit what kind of movies that Hollywood can make (gun free of course), what TV shows can be shown, what material the internet can put out, what video games can be marketed, etc. First screaming you would hear would be that of rights.
And what do you think would happen when someone makes a complaint about someone being "off" or weird and they put that person in custody?
Rights once again would be SCREAMED. Very slippery slope as we all know.

guess I kinda got off the subject of the original post. I personally have no issue with the age limit of 21 for an AR BUT that law won't eliminate ANYTHING. If an 18 year old is old enough to fight for their country and willing to give their life, they should be granted the same privileges as every other adult.

Randy

 

[dtrkyman]

Prices you pay to live free, there is not a good answer to this situation as far as guns go, we just have to realize like it or not that the non gun public and I do not mean anti gun think we are complete idiots to not want regulations.

I don't agree with it but something has got to give, obviously drugs being illegal has done virtually nothing. Trump talking changing age is just lip service to make him look good, he may or may not pursue it but at least he is showing people he is open to it. blah blah blah.

 

[Northernpiker]

It kind of disappoints me so many people single out "AR's" as being such a devious weapon. They're just the result of weapon evolution, it's been happening since the musket. Do I think changing the limit, on any firearm, to 21 years of age will help...No I don't.

 

[Diesel]

I am amazed at how quickly many would give away someone else's rights to justify their emotional outrage. And this is a site about hunting and guns and bows. Wow. I suppose all who see it ok to raise the age to 21 are now over that age.

How many current laws need to be broken before enforcement is applied? Criminals and the mentally disturbed are not concerned with laws.

I don't own an AR and can't spare the funds for one, so how does this kid get the cash to buy one. The Sandy Hook shooter's own mother bought his AR.

The sheriff and FBI are not enforcing the laws we have now, but let's make some more laws that we won't enforce while we take away some law abiding young person's right. That will work.

"They came for my Jewish neighbor and took him away, but I wasn't Jewish so I wasn't affected and I said nothing, then they came for the guy down the street because he owned a gun, but I said nothing because I bow hunt, and then they came for me, but there was nobody left to say anything."

Think deeper comrades. Study history and learn.

 

[Nuke Man]

**** I thought I accidentally logged onto MSNBC or some shit. I fully oppose any and all laws regarding any of our rights. Yes rights, something you guys from other countries don't have. We (Americans) fought and died for our rights, not rolled over and took what we were given. What exactly is raising the legal age to 21 going to accomplish? Not a ****ing thing. Those of you so willing to give up your rights freaking scare me, not the dude with a bunker full of arms and ammo. Suggesting to raise the age is nothing but a knee jerk feel good reaction. It will do absolutely nothing to bring down gun violence.
When will they stop putting regulations on our freedoms? How about we put age/gender/race/religion regulations on the other 9? No.....I didn't think so..

 

[blackdawg]

And therein is the problem......the parents have failed in their parental boot camp in raising these kids. But that's not a big surprise, we've seen that happening for a few decades now with the push against proper child raising and good discipline. Then idiots start this thing with "participation trophies" and the kids never learn that there are in fact "losers" in every aspect of life. They all feel entitled so when they enter real life they get a shock to their system and the only way they find to deal with that is "I'm entitled" and "look at me too".

We as parents and the school system was supposed to train these kids up to be adults. Both have failed miserably with "new-age" parenting tactics and so-called self-esteem experts telling everyone what's best for the "kids". They never learned how deal with problems because someone is always there to "remove said problem" before they can figure it all out. Bullying is not allowed, fighting back is not allowed, working out your differences is not allowed, disciplining is not allowed......but when they need the discipline the most, the parents rely on drugs to calm the kids (and maybe even themselves) instead of tackling the problem. Years of not being allowed to solve or work through their problems festers up until they go full-on whackjob. Yep, parents have failed big time. And we've allowed our schools to be turned into Liberal Loon Daycares and........here we are. Yay!

This man speaks the truth,, had a parent teacher conference, kid messed up a little,,, one teachers recommendation was to put him on medication for add,, i about ripped that stupid broads head off for her idiocy,,, want to fix problems,, make people responsible and bring back punishment

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[SwampBone]

I agree with Blackdawg. More regulations won’t stop anything. Criminals and would be criminals will find a way to harm other people whether they legally own something or not. Let’s take it back to the Roman days and throw them in the lion pit.

 

[AustinL911]

**** I thought I accidentally logged onto MSNBC or some shit. I fully oppose any and all laws regarding any of our rights. Yes rights, something you guys from other countries don't have. We (Americans) fought and died for our rights, not rolled over and took what we were given. What exactly is raising the legal age to 21 going to accomplish? Not a ****ing thing. Those of you so willing to give up your rights freaking scare me, not the dude with a bunker full of arms and ammo. Suggesting to raise the age is nothing but a knee jerk feel good reaction. It will do absolutely nothing to bring down gun violence.
When will they stop putting regulations on our freedoms? How about we put age/gender/race/religion regulations on the other 9? No.....I didn't think so..

This man gets it. I'm more than a little concerned at the amount of folks on this pro-hunting website that are so quick to give up their guns/rights. I always thought gun folks and hunting folks were pretty much cut from the same cloth.

BTW, can we stop bringing up other countries for comparison? We aren't other countries so I really don't give a shit what their laws are or what they do. They aren't us and we aren't them.

 

[gelton]

This man gets it. I'm more than a little concerned at the amount of folks on this pro-hunting website that are so quick to give up their guns/rights. I always thought gun folks and hunting folks were pretty much cut from the same cloth.

BTW, can we stop bringing up other countries for comparison? We aren't other countries so I really don't give a shit what their laws are or what they do. They aren't us and we aren't them.

I am just going to throw a theory out there based on about 4 years of observation on this site.

Love it or hate it this is my conclusion and probably mine alone. And don't hate me for stereotyping your state of residence because Texas is stereotyped on here at least once a week if not more.

Anyone West of the Mississippi, or more accurately the line from Texas to North Dakota with the exception of Idaho, and a VERY small amount of hold outs in Colorado and Washington (never would of thought Washington) and maybe Montana but I dont have much hope for Montana either, have been sucking from the federal tit for so long that its all they know.

They weren't a part of the original union, they didn't fight in the civil war, their idea of private property isnt aligned with the values that you will find east of the Mississippi.

They largely believe in the supremacy of federal government instead of the supremacy of the states, even though it was the states that created the Federal Government and the 10th amendment says if it isnt in the constitution it is left up to the states.

In large part, they just don't get it. Which is why they are willing to puke up their rights the first chance they get.

Love me or hate me but its the truth. Now I apologize in advance to all those liberty loving folks that happen to be captured in those states, but it is what it is.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, I never really realized that until I joined this site.

If there is ever another civil war, I predict that it will be East vs West instead of North vs. South. Nobody wants that to happen but it is an intriguing observation, at least from my viewpoint.

 

[full choke]

I am just going to throw a theory out there based on about 4 years of observation on this site.

Love it or hate it this is my conclusion and probably mine alone. And don't hate me for stereotyping your state of residence because Texas is stereotyped on here at least once a week if not more.

Anyone West of the Mississippi, or more accurately the line from Texas to North Dakota with the exception of Idaho, and a VERY small amount of hold outs in Colorado and Washington (never would of thought Washington) and maybe Montana but I dont have much hope for Montana either, have been sucking from the federal tit for so long that its all they know.

They weren't a part of the original union, they didn't fight in the civil war, their idea of private property isnt aligned with the values that you will find east of the Mississippi.

They largely believe in the supremacy of federal government instead of the supremacy of the states, even though it was the states that created the Federal Government and the 10th amendment says if it isnt in the constitution it is left up to the states.

In large part, they just don't get it. Which is why they are willing to puke up their rights the first chance they get.

Love me or hate me but its the truth. Now I apologize in advance to all those liberty loving folks that happen to be captured in those states, but it is what it is.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, I never really realized that until I joined this site.

If there is ever another civil war, I predict that it will be East vs West instead of North vs. South. Nobody wants that to happen but it is an intriguing observation, at least from my viewpoint.

If there is another civil war, when it comes time to pick teams- Kalifornia is gonna be picked last...

 

[Mike7]

Gelton, I get what you are saying, but that has not always been my experience. The west in the 70s and even 80s was, except for California, full of rugged individualists.
Since then transplants from California and graduates of western urban universities have endeavored to escape California, but have brought with them the values which cause the very thing that they have tried to escape, and they have taken over the urban centers of political control in a good portion of the west.

 

[dotman]

Gelton I get what your saying but I bet it is center vs east/west edges.

 

[BrushyHillGuide]

It’s probably an unpopular view but I could live with raising the age to 21, to purchase a new firearm, IF (and ONLY IF) there is a simultaneous caveat for those who serve in the military and/or LE/First Responder; and are in good standing with their branch. This does NOT mean kids can’t possess guns - it simply means they can’t go into Walmart or Bass Pro and buy an AR unless they demonstrate a certain higher level of maturity. Otherwise, they’ll need mom or dad to help them and take responsibility for the purchase. I also believe that the drinking age should be lowered for those who serve our communities and our country. A majority of the world permits 18 year olds (or younger) to drink and I think it’s shameful that we are willing to send kids to war but will criminalize them enjoying a beer.

Besides appeasing the left with a sensible bone, I think this type of move would help out in 2 important ways:

1. It’d reduce (albeit slightly) the odds that an impulsive and immature teenager can get his/her hands on a firearm in a moment of rage. Especially without the knowledge of their parents or guardian.

2. It would provide a further incentive to those kids who might consider serving their country and their community; and it would reward those that DO make that commitment and sacrifice!

I see this as a “common sense” improvement that actually has some real benefit without simply adding a burdensome regulation to appease people’s emotions. Maybe this could be a step back towards some of the traditional values and sense of personal responsibility that existed when I was a teenager. We didn’t have mass shootings like we have today....with the exception of Charles Whitman which was a lot earlier than my time. These shootings are a clear symptom of the societal changes that have occurred since the 80’s & 90’s. As the father of 2 boys in and approaching high school in our small rural community, this stuff scares me to death. Even out here where hunting is the #1 pastime and one of the 2 biggest industries, the immaturity of kids is shocking and disappointing. I can’t even imagine what it’s like in urban environments. I just can’t see the infringement on the 2ndA that making kids wait to 21 to buy a firearm (unless they serve) poses. Correct me with a logical argument if you think I’m wrong - I’m open minded. Just how I’ve been feeling lately.


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[BrushyHillGuide]

Some of the replies on here, agreeing with over-all gun control proposals favored by the anti-gun movements are shocking to me. This is the LAST place I’d expect to see that. I do support raising the age limit, under some special conditions, but adopting strict controls like ‘other countries” is bull hockey! That makes about as much sense as banning vehicles to stop drunk driving or banning sports to keep kids from getting hurt. I get that emotions are raw right now. We’re ALL upset right now and we all want these horrific events to stop and to stop NOW! But you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Solutions (if you can call them that) for other countries are unlikely to work and are totally impractical/impossible to implement in THIS country.

First of all, we are a unique nation with a history unlike ANY other on earth. We also larger and more diverse than any other, besides China. What might work in New Zealand or Germany or Japan or England or even Canada just WILL NOT work here. MAYBE, they wound work for a single state or two (which are more analogous to most nations around the world) but not as a national policy in the US. There are already HUNDREDS of millions of guns in American homes and a Pew Research study showed some 45% of Americans live in homes with guns. Our nation’s entire history and, in fact, very existence is the direct result of gun ownership by its citizens. We are the only 1st world nation that has individual gun ownership enshrined in its very Constitution - something that was carefully included since our earliest days as an independent country. We are a very unique and special nation that the world looks to for help in its darkest hours. Despite all the nonsense we have to put up with from other nations on a daily basis, when it comes down to the nut-cuttin’ and their back is to the wall, who do these ‘shining examples of gun control’ and (supposed) supposed moral superiority look to??? OUR gun-toting nation, that’s who.

The number of guns already in the hands of Americans makes limiting guns a practical impossibility that would only hurt the law-abiding and do nothing to hinder the law breakers - EVEN IF the law-abiders were willing to give up some of their weapons or their Constitutional rights, which they’re just not. We simply can not look outward for the answers to our problems with mentally disturbed criminals and firearms. Our unique nation will have to find a solution that’s equally unique.

Getting rid of guns, which has been the REAL goal of the “gun control” movement, is a non-starter. The reason we haven’t slowed down these shootings since Columbine is the left’s alliance with the gun control movement and their defacto anti-gun demands. This stance has prevented us from engaging the real conversations we need to have in order to come up with actual solutions to the problem. We will never solve this issue until we address the actual PROBLEM! The problem isn’t the guns, it’s people. Specifically, mentally disturbed people and criminals beyond rehabilitation. As long as the problems are shielded by those that are more interested in banning guns and gun parts, we’ll stay mired in a debate about a, at best, loosely linked subject. It’s time to stop trying to treat the symptoms and begin looking for treatments for the actual diseases. Looking at gun control as a solution is about like giving a cancer patient a painkiller and sending them home. They may “feel” a little better for a short while but are we really “helping” them? No. To truly make a difference, we need to perform chemotherapy or radiation treatment to kill the disease. This is a lot tougher, painful and unpleasant process but the results are a lot more positive and rewarding - long-term health and a rewarding life! Real treatment for the issue at hand involves looking at mental health and how we as a society have changed in recent decades to CREATE these people. We have ALWAYS had access to guns. Why is it just in the last 20 years that we’ve had so many of these shootings? It’s NOT the AR15. Charles Whitman shot 45 people, killing 14 with a Remington 700 bolt action .30-06 in the first mass shooting at a school back in 1966. Other events around the world have shown that killers bent on mass murder find the means based on what’s available at hand. If not a gun then a bomb, vehicle, knife, poison, etc. There has been a fundamental shift in society that has given rise to the psychosis of these deranged people. In order to change that, we’re going to have to figure out how to return people, and our kids in particular, to the kind of thinking we USED to see in our children. We need to regain the fundamental value for life and care for each other that we USED to have in this country! Something that began to erode in the 1960’s and has snowballed. We’re also gong to have to change our attitude and policies towards mental health and rehabilitation of EVERYONE outside the norms of society - from the mentally ill to criminal behavior. If we want people to report their loved ones for their aberrant behavior and thinking, we HAVE to remove the stigma and the automatic life-long repercussions that currently exist! People will be much more likely to agree with removing or limiting rights if there’s a pathway BACK to those rights following adequate rehabilitation and treatment. Parents are understandably hesitant to report their children for fear of them FOREVER being labeled “crazy” and losing certain rights, like their 2nd Amendment rights. If something is truly a “Right,” particularly a Constitutional right, then many people believe these rights can not and should not EVER be taken away with out SOME sort of process in place for seeking to reclaim those rights following adequate treatment and rehabilitation. If we, as a society, want/expect people to rehabilitate (which we DESPERATELY need them to) then we simply can not continue to punish them and stigmatize them for life except in the case of the most heinous of acts like murder and rape.

It’s a complicated issue with difficult yet ATTAINABLE solutions that WILL work in our unique and exceptionally special nation; but they require coming to the table for an honest discussion. However, that discussion can, and will, only happen AWAY from the anti-gun proposition. Until the call for “bans” on guns and the further limiting of private gun ownership by law abiding citizens under established legal precedents, absolutely NOTHING will change and we’ll continue to suffer from these horrific tragedies.


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[Nuke Man]

The removal of God from our society is to blame. We need to get back to One Nation Under God. Go to church raise your kids with God. We must teach our children to follow Jesus because the world definitely will not. That's how we can get back to the good ol days.

 

[blackdawg]

The removal of God from our society is to blame. We need to get back to One Nation Under God. Go to church raise your kids with God. We must teach our children to follow Jesus because the world definitely will not. That's how we can get back to the good ol days.

This man speaks the truth! The same people attacking guns are also attacking the church!

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[5MilesBack]

The removal of God from our society is to blame. We need to get back to One Nation Under God. Go to church raise your kids with God. We must teach our children to follow Jesus because the world definitely will not. That's how we can get back to the good ol days.

It's pretty easy to see how Satan has been using the left for some time. It started in the 60's with the rebellion and resisting of any and all authority.......authority that God put into place. Then you throw in a bunch of mind altering drugs and bam, you have an entire generation of deadbeats. Then those deadbeats reproduce and raise up another generation of the same, etc, etc.

Then they move on to remove God from schools, remove God from government, remove God from business, remove God from homes, remove God from marriage, remove God from gender assignment, remove God from the Bible, and........they hate God so much that they even refuse to use the brain that GOD put in their head. Nothing but destruction, lies, chaos, and confusion in society today.

And then we have to wonder WHY we're in the state we're in? SMH

 

[SandyCreek]

I'm against any gun control measures..it is a right that we all inherit. The bottom line is last time i checked murder is still illegal.. so is taking a gun into a "gun free" zone.. laws will do nothing because those that do these awful acts don't give two shits about laws. All passing bills and legislation does is give people a warm fuzzy feeling like "hey look at what we did, we're helping" Its a crock of shit. Maybe we should focus on fixing how our systems communicate with each other, if the county sheriff has to visit your house 30 some odd times, or people have tipped the fbi off about you no way your ass should be buying a gun. To me this whole situation in Florida was botched by law enforcement multiple times. Everyone needs to get off Facebook and shut off the tv and think rationally and not emotionally for 5 minutes.

 

[flyinsquirel]

Gelton I get what your saying but I bet it is center vs east/west edges.

Correct.

I think a lot of people would be surprised just how many hillbillies/red necks/conservatives/whatever term you please, CA really has. It's just that Frisco/Bay area, the LA area and the Sacramento area have even more of the opposite so they win the vote. 1.6 million people in Idaho, 1 million in Montana, 39.2 million in CA. Suffice it to say we have more conservatives here than many of the widely accepted to be 'conservative' states.