21 Years Old...

[WV Mountaineer]

Exactly........just as millions own and use guns every day and go about their normal lives like anyone else with hobbies.

Think about the stats for a moment. .01% of the population (that's .0001 times ~350,000,000 people) would be 35,000 people. We definitely have at least 35,000 criminals in our society, but do we have 35,000 nutjobs running around shooting up schools or theaters or anywhere else there is a "gun-free" zone? Of course not. The numbers are even WAYYYY less than that.

So when 99.99%+ of the population doesn't have a problem acting responsibly in this manner, does it make ANY logical, reasonable, or any other characterization sense to create new laws that affect everyone, when only .001% or less of the population has shown they can't handle that responsibility? Seriously? It's already illegal to shoot up a school. It's already illegal to murder people. Obviously having laws doesn't stop these people from committing crimes. Adding new laws won't stop them either.

Best post on the whole thread

 

[robby denning]

For school shootings over half are miners but from 18 to 21 are usually grouped together as adults. So, it is probably almost all school shooters are under 21.

Most school shooters also get their weapon from home. Parents don't lock up their guns.

this is what I found on it. If Everytown is a reliable source, the recent data shows about 16 out of 50 of the shooters in K-12 incidents were 21+. Analysis of School Shootings

so about 2/3 would have been affected by a ban on purchase under 21, but as Muley Fever said, as I read the stories on that site, seems many guns were obtained from parents, etc. so a ban on under 21 might make not much difference.
edit: would make virtually no difference

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I am amazed at how quickly many would give away someone else's rights to justify their emotional outrage. And this is a site about hunting and guns and bows. Wow. I suppose all who see it ok to raise the age to 21 are now over that age.

How many current laws need to be broken before enforcement is applied? Criminals and the mentally disturbed are not concerned with laws.

I don't own an AR and can't spare the funds for one, so how does this kid get the cash to buy one. The Sandy Hook shooter's own mother bought his AR.

The sheriff and FBI are not enforcing the laws we have now, but let's make some more laws that we won't enforce while we take away some law abiding young person's right. That will work.

"They came for my Jewish neighbor and took him away, but I wasn't Jewish so I wasn't affected and I said nothing, then they came for the guy down the street because he owned a gun, but I said nothing because I bow hunt, and then they came for me, but there was nobody left to say anything."

Think deeper comrades. Study history and learn.

No, I may have been wrong. This might be the best post on the whole thread

 

[WV Mountaineer]

This man gets it. I'm more than a little concerned at the amount of folks on this pro-hunting website that are so quick to give up their guns/rights. I always thought gun folks and hunting folks were pretty much cut from the same cloth.

BTW, can we stop bringing up other countries for comparison? We aren't other countries so I really don't give a shit what their laws are or what they do. They aren't us and we aren't them.

I agree. The amount of people here who are willing to "reason" away what makes America, AMERICA, is frightening. It makes me want to puke that many of those same people are hunters.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I am just going to throw a theory out there based on about 4 years of observation on this site.

Love it or hate it this is my conclusion and probably mine alone. And don't hate me for stereotyping your state of residence because Texas is stereotyped on here at least once a week if not more.

Anyone West of the Mississippi, or more accurately the line from Texas to North Dakota with the exception of Idaho, and a VERY small amount of hold outs in Colorado and Washington (never would of thought Washington) and maybe Montana but I dont have much hope for Montana either, have been sucking from the federal tit for so long that its all they know.

They weren't a part of the original union, they didn't fight in the civil war, their idea of private property isnt aligned with the values that you will find east of the Mississippi.

They largely believe in the supremacy of federal government instead of the supremacy of the states, even though it was the states that created the Federal Government and the 10th amendment says if it isnt in the constitution it is left up to the states.

In large part, they just don't get it. Which is why they are willing to puke up their rights the first chance they get.

Love me or hate me but its the truth. Now I apologize in advance to all those liberty loving folks that happen to be captured in those states, but it is what it is.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, I never really realized that until I joined this site.

If there is ever another civil war, I predict that it will be East vs West instead of North vs. South. Nobody wants that to happen but it is an intriguing observation, at least from my viewpoint.

.
Dang it man. You might be a genius. I've been trying to put my finger on what makes folks in the west express their support of federal woes and you opened my eyes for me. The only thing I'll say is you left out Utah. :^)

 

[MuleyFever]

this is what I found on it. If Everytown is a reliable source, the recent data shows about 16 out of 50 of the shooters in K-12 incidents were 21+. Analysis of School Shootings

so about 2/3 would have been affected by a ban on purchase under 21, but as Muley Fever said, as I read the stories on that site, seems many guns were obtained from parents, etc. so a ban on under 21 might make not much difference.

They also have a report out there from 12/2012 to 2/2014, where 70% of shooters were minors and shooter ages ranged from 5 to 53. No age limit will keep minors from getting guns. And minors are the majority of the shooters.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Great thing about America is that anyone can not participate in religion and not feel like shit for it. I am very glad there is no state religion or someone suggesting I worship a particular god as you suggest.

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It never fails on one of these type threads. A non american telling an american how things are here. If you were an american, you would understand that he wasn't telling you how or who to worship. He was telling you how we got here. This country was founded on Judeo Christian values. An d the one ting we share with the rest of the world is the farther we get from that, the more america resembles the rest of the world morally. Like it or not, we are not the rest of the world.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I've quoted all I will. I too am surprised by the number of people who talk as if the rights that define this republic are up for negotiation. I don't find that on any site in the general forum. And, quite frankly, find it more then bearable on this forum now. I'm going to check out of here for a while. I'll see you fella's. God Bless you all.

 

[Sverimerica]

Is it your thinking that "state officials" are the final arbiter? In America we have a constitution and bill of rights that spells out exactly what is the federal and states authority. We are not a democracy, we are a republic and this republic is made up of individual states with laws and rules that are specific to them only. The UNITED States of America.

When the federal government oversteps it's jurisdictions, the courts are called upon to make a decision. States have all rights not spelled out
specifically belonging to the federal government. We have three branches of government to hopefully restrict one branch or entity to from unlimited power.

If all these safeguards fail, the founders in their wisdom provided a means to right the ship. Let us all hope that safeguard is not ever needed.

Additionally, our military is made up of volunteers that come from every state, urban and rural, and every religion and every ethnicity and all sexual persuasions. They are us and we are them. It would be a scenario that our own would have to fire on their own. And vice versa.

Better to be prepared for any unlikely event than be caught flatfooted. Americans love their freedom.

Thanks for the lesson

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[Sverimerica]

It never fails on one of these type threads. A non american telling an american how things are here. If you were an american, you would understand that he wasn't telling you how or who to worship. He was telling you how we got here. This country was founded on Judeo Christian values. An d the one ting we share with the rest of the world is the farther we get from that, the more america resembles the rest of the world morally. Like it or not, we are not the rest of the world.

I am an American. I live elsewhere right now, but I am a born and raised American citizen. I pay taxes in the US. My parents and siblings are still there. Dont call me a non American.

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[Kevin Dill]

Thursday March 1: So by now we've seen Dick's announce they will stop selling all AR rifles, which is to include their Field & Stream stores. They also will NOT sell guns to anyone under the age of 21. Walmart quickly followed suit on the 'no gun under twenty-one' policy. Today I see that Fred Meyer stores (OR, WA ID and AK) is going with the minimum age 21 policy for all gun sales. Fred Meyer is owned by Kroger, but their stores typically cater to rural types and sportsmen/women. FM has several stores in Alaska I've been to. The corporate tide appears to be doing what was once thought unlikely. If this movement takes hold and continues....it's going to be very interesting to watch what happens.

 

[timekiller13]

If private businesses choose to impose a more restrictive age limit on firearms and ammo sales that's fine with me. They are perfectly within their right to do that. I do not think there should be a federal change though.

 

[bigdesert10]

If a person is old enough to be emancipated and live on their own and vote and pay taxes, they are old enough to buy and own a firearm.

I hate that the gun control conversation so often devolves into an argument over whether this or that measure would be effective or not. It doesn't matter if it would work. It is immoral to strip a legal citizen of their right to self defense. The 2nd Amendment is a moral right.

Anyone who thinks that it's up for negotiation ought to consider if the same goes for free speech, due process, search and seizure and voting rights.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

sounds like LL Bean is following suit now with the 21 age requirement

 

[Burnt Reynolds]

If guns kill people, why don't we just send the guns off to war and leave the people home...
-Ozzy Osbourne

Raising the age for semi-autos wouldn't have done jack to stop the Las Vegas shooter. An outright gun ban didn't do jack to stop Columbine. Timothy McVeigh didn't use a single firearm to kill 160+. A determined psychopath killed 27 and injured 100 in China - with a knife. The notion that an ar15 and a standard capacity magazine being banned from a demographic of 18-21 year olds will solve the problem is, at best: another nail in the coffin or at worst: outright collaboration with our would-be masters.

Law Enforcement in Florida benefited from every tool at their disposal in addition to probable cause, tips from concerned citizens and numerous interactions with Cruz. And yet, at every level they failed. It was a top-down failure too.

Beware insidious Fabianism in all it's forms - consider what has transpired since 1934 with respect to firearms in society and it's no surprise that there is now a cancer of evil among us. ALL 2A INFRINGEMENTS ARE FOR THOSE WHO WOULD BE SERVANTS. Question: how many school shootings were there in all decades prior to the creation of gun-free zones in 1990 by Joe Biden? One or two or? What's the common denominator?

Those of you well intentioned do-gooders attempting to make peace with anti-2A crowd need to reconsider your role as it pertains to Hagelian dialectic and how your position is going to be usurped when they come for your "high power sniper rifles that nobody needs to hunt deer"

The 2nd isn't designed so you can blow the mortgage payment on alpha glass or kuiu gear and go climb a mountain to knock over a slob bull. The 2nd is designed so that the people can maintain parity in arms with their government at whatever level they see fit.

Spend some time overseas and see what happens when one group is armed and another is not - see what happens when a 6 month old is taken from a home and roasted over an open fire by a government that can't earn support, they have to coerce it via fear. Recognize that ANY body politic is capable of such inhuman behavior. Recognize also that you can't regulate morality. The daily killings in Chicago come to mind. Re-read The Tragedy of the Commons, how does that apply? Haven't read that? Then throw your damn iphone in the lake, go to the library and read something beyond HuntinFool. For crying out loud, you're a hunter right? I assume you prefer the life of getting your own meat vs buying it at a store right? Do the same thing for your mind. Do it now.

The issue that confronts us isn't the misuse of an inanimate object. It's the lack of honor and low standards so prevalent today.

I myself own a few ar15's. Pretty high end versions at that. I consider selling them all from time to time, generally speaking I see them as overpriced hunks of $25.00 worth metal and plastic and of little value to me now because I, like you, enjoy a low risk life. First world nations can and do descend into anarchy - and that doesn't mean warfare. Consider what's currently underway in South Africa or Venezuela, or what happened in Rhodesia or Yugoslavia. All former FIRST WORLD nations with incredible resources overtaken by the scourge of socialism and emotion based governing. I keep my ar15's for the benefit of my future great grand kids.

 

[nexus]

After reading this entire thread, I am positive all of the above posters believe there is a problem and wish for a solution. Of course, each poster has their perspective on the causation and specific approach to resolving the problem (from tighter restriction on access to death penalty posts). But having family members that were present while an active shooter murdered a teacher and students at my former high school in 1992 (Lindhurst) and the increasing trend of criminals using firearms on innocent people in soft targets (schools, workplace, houses of worship), I am more convinced then ever that the solution must be approached from many different angles (mental health, age appropriate access, background checks, magazine limitations, etc..). I further believe, any suggestion of legislation that does not directly address both incident prevention (reduction) and casualty per incident reduction is disingenuous. We have enacted laws based on these two fundamental concepts for hundreds of years (building codes, speed limits, game hunting regulations, food handling requirements, etc.). All of these regulations have stemmed from tragedy and the underlying American value of making things better and safer for the next generation. While I agree, the number of these "mass shooting" incidents and casualties associated with these tragedies still represents a minority of the overall gun violence in our country, I believe there is little argument that the trend is growing. I see no harm in urging my representatives, the NRA (I'm a member), and the opposite side of the aisle to work collectively to address this issue now before it grows.

 

[IdahoElk]

Problem Reaction Solution,they want those guns
[video=youtube;L-LI-CILcYc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-LI-CILcYc&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop[/video]

 

[6mm Remington]

Gov. Bevin Responds to Alleged Hypocrisy - YouTube

Only 8 minutes long and worth listening to. Gov. Blevins