2024 Bows?

[Kularrow]

What is so amazing about a carbon fiber bow? Looking at Hoyt, the carbon bow is anywhere from .5 to 1 lb lighter than an aluminum bow. Why would you pay an additional $500 for .5 lb? This seems insane to me. Do they shoot better or are they more quiet? I've never shot one so I'm curious.

They’re warmer to touch than aluminum on a cold day and generally lighter than an aluminum bow. My friends levitate fully set up was the same weight at my bow bare.

 

[sndmn11]

And don't forget that most will add heavy stabilizers on the carbon bow in order to make it more stable on the hold which also makes it almost as heavy or heavier then an aluminum bow. That's just my opinion, of course and has no bearing on what others may think.

I just turned in a review for the Era last week. The teaser thread is here.

Elite Era Review (September/October)

I've had an Elite Era for about a month. Elite brought a fair amount of new this year, so we decided to separate this from the Omnia review seen here--> https://www.rokslide.com/elite-omnia-review/ I am finding the Era to be much more than a slower carbon riser Omnia; drastically more than...

rokslide.com

I've seen some guys locally add almost two pounds of front/back weight to shoot 3d with.

I approached the review wanting to see if "shootability" was enough of a thing to not use a traditional stabilizer. Instead I used a quivalizer and moved it from the side position to the front position, and shot an elk with it on the side.

My opinion though isn't that the hold stability, interpreted by me as pin float, isn't the reason for adding weight to a light bow. I think the bigger value is in numbing down grip torque and micro flaws on the release. Just like shooting a very light wight rifle, that tiny bit of time when the shot goes off by the projectile is still connected to the shooter matters, and more mass is harder to move off target.

 

[dtrkyman]

The PSE is the only carbon bow that is light anymore, other than the hybrid carbon/plastic cheaper Bowtech. If Carbon were superior the target bows would be carbon by now.

I used to manage a shop a while ago and always had multiple new bows every year, these days If I buy a bow it is a new old stock, last one I got for almost half price after it sat a couple years.

APA still makes a light weight aluminum bow, Mathews used to but got away from it looking for rigid, smooth and quiet, the lighter bows generally have more vibe and noise.

 

[Stalker69]

If you are certain that's what you want, just walk into your favorite bow shop with a handful of cash tomorrow and say you want to order one. You might get lucky and snag one of their stocking order.

I was a mathews fan boy for many many years. And I shot at the range on a very regular basis on a 3-d league. And I would have them order me the first flag ship release they got, that they were able to sell every year. I have wised up now though. They may not know the cost, but if you leave a 1500.00 dollar deposit, they can get you one. Mine would arrive shortly after( usually within days, or a week or two) the “ demo” bow each dealer gets every year.

 

[BroccoliRob]

Looks like Elite will be announcing three new bows on Tuesday.

 

[sndmn11]

Looks like Elite will be announcing three new bows on Tuesday.

View attachment 611548

They sure will! I think the additions will build out their roster of choices to not really have any holes. I have one ordered.

I know the Omnia has been an outstanding bow for @KickinNDishin and Elite pushed for her to participate in the review we did on here about the Omnia https://www.rokslide.com/elite-omnia-review/

So, it'll be interesting "if" they offer a premium women's bow and how it will mirror the Omnia.

 

[Miflatlander91]

Really hoping for a longer ata Omnia I think I’ll get my wish few more days!


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[tkhuntsman]

I bought a Mathews V3 2 years ago, it's way better than the 10 year old PSE it replaced. At 2k for a new bow that will be nearly worthless in a few years, I'm shooting the V3 for a long time, unless I loose it.

Me too brother and my V3 shoots lights out. I don't need the bridgelock and limb dampeners it's the same riser and limb width/profile. For the price gouge they just haven't made a substantial improvement that makes the bow any better. I will say Elite has cought my eye and it's a darn smooth bow but still not better than what I've got.

 

[JF_Idaho]

Elite Ethos, Kairos and Allure dropped today.

 

[cuttingedge]

Mathews has chased having the most rigid risers for a long time.

Generally, carbon flexes, and flexes a lot.


Makes for difficult tuning when the centershot changes on the bow through the draw cycle. It would be possible with a shoot through riser, but that brings other problems.
For Mathews, better colors. The camo finish sucks, olive drap is worn out, Ghey Grey sucks, black is black. The target colors seem like a Model T, you can have any color you want as long as its....



I don't know what I really want to see. Pretty much performance has peaked until something new for limb materials comes along. Improvements in tuning? Well I liked yokes. I don't much care about the easy user interface for tuning, seems it might be sacrificing durability, and I have a press so I don't need it.



I'd like to see larger riser cutouts on a lot of bows. I don't want to have a broadhead in front of my riser. If I want to have a large fixed head on my arrow, I'd like it to be able to be inside the riser if I want.

All bows should have 2 Berger holes and multiple sight holes. More options for adjustment of holding weight on hunting bows, or higher holding, less letoff options.

I have had the RX7, Carbon Air, Carbon Stealth, and 2 Mach 34's. I haven't experienced this riser flex you speak of. I was able to get them all to tune to my liking. The EZ220 shim systems on the Mach 34's were the easiest.

 

[CB4]

Me too brother and my V3 shoots lights out. I don't need the bridgelock and limb dampeners it's the same riser and limb width/profile. For the price gouge they just haven't made a substantial improvement that makes the bow any better. I will say Elite has cought my eye and it's a darn smooth bow but still not better than what I've got.

In the same boat as you two. Will put new strings on after this year and keep shooting it.

 

[Billy Goat]

I have had the RX7, Carbon Air, Carbon Stealth, and 2 Mach 34's. I haven't experienced this riser flex you speak of. I was able to get them all to tune to my liking. The EZ220 shim systems on the Mach 34's were the easiest.

You saying your risers aren't flexing? Or that you aren't having issue with tuning?

The newer Hoyt bows are a lot better for it, the earlier models flexed a lot more. The Defiant Turbo was terrible for it.


I have seen a lot of flex in the PSE carbons, but haven't spent much time with them.


Try putting your bows in a press with a straight edge from limb pocket to limb pocket and measure to the riser at the berger hole. Press so the ata goes to the full draw measurements and see how much it grows.


If tuning for fixed blades at speed you want the least amount of riser flex. All bows will usually flex a little, just the carbon bows tend to flex a lot. Hard to get the horizontal nock travel out of it.

 

[Tilzbow]

You saying your risers aren't flexing? Or that you aren't having issue with tuning?

The newer Hoyt bows are a lot better for it, the earlier models flexed a lot more. The Defiant Turbo was terrible for it.


I have seen a lot of flex in the PSE carbons, but haven't spent much time with them.


Try putting your bows in a press with a straight edge from limb pocket to limb pocket and measure to the riser at the berger hole. Press so the ata goes to the full draw measurements and see how much it grows.


If tuning for fixed blades at speed you want the least amount of riser flex. All bows will usually flex a little, just the carbon bows tend to flex a lot. Hard to get the horizontal nock travel out of it.

I have questions:

Wouldn’t it be better to test flex in a draw board rather than a press?

Have you tested bows or seen tests results using both methods and is their a difference?

Have you also tested or seen tests that compared flex of carbon and non-carbon flagship bows from the same manufacturer, such as flex from a RX7 Ultra vs a VTM34?

 

[Billy Goat]

I have questions:

Wouldn’t it be better to test flex in a draw board rather than a press?

Have you tested bows or seen tests results using both methods and is their a difference?

Have you also tested or seen tests that compared flex of carbon and non-carbon flagship bows from the same manufacturer, such as flex from a RX7 Ultra vs a VTM34?

I haven't messed with it in a few years. I remember getting around double the deflection with carbon versus aluminum, but a lot of factors go into it. It's interesting to me how short the RX7 riser got, the ultra is still long, but I'd bet the limbs are a way lower deflection and those cams aren't aggressive, so I suspect less pressure on the longer riser.


You can test in a draw board, I feel more comfortable doing it in a press, a bow sitting at full draw always seems sketchy to me. If you want to just test risers overall you would support at the limb pockets and hang a weight on them and measure how much it moves just like an arrow spine. But easy to stick in a press or draw board and do it.


I played briefly with the new Bowtech carbon bow and it's pretty stiff, I'm sure it's not by mistake.


I haven't messed with carbon in a few years. I was an early user, had one of the first Hoyt carbon on the east coast actually. Juice got to where it wasn't worth the squeeze for me.

 

[roosiebull]

I would like to see more center grip designs like prime, they shoot well, don’t need much/any stabilization and pack so much better

I used to think bow weight matters quite a bit, but after packing a nexus 4 around a bunch, it doesn’t get any thought, it’s not noticeably heavier than my Mach 1…. That is what pretty much rules out mathews for me, they suck to carry in the woods and I don’t like their balance.

Everyone makes nice bows, and luckily there are lots of options to fill the needs of anyone for any hunting.

I don’t get excited about new bows anymore, there is really nothing new, they just change them a little to keep people buying them with a bunch of marketing.

Like seeing the new bows, but I don’t know that I’ll be tempted to buy a new bow. I will probably keep my bow and buy a used APA this year (or new if they drop something cool) but they are the only thing that really interests me.

None of them will do anything special, they will all be nice in their own regard, there will be design flaws in a couple because they don’t have enough time to actually test stuff, design new bows every year and then produce them.

 

[Miflatlander91]

I haven't messed with it in a few years. I remember getting around double the deflection with carbon versus aluminum, but a lot of factors go into it. It's interesting to me how short the RX7 riser got, the ultra is still long, but I'd bet the limbs are a way lower deflection and those cams aren't aggressive, so I suspect less pressure on the longer riser.


You can test in a draw board, I feel more comfortable doing it in a press, a bow sitting at full draw always seems sketchy to me. If you want to just test risers overall you would support at the limb pockets and hang a weight on them and measure how much it moves just like an arrow spine. But easy to stick in a press or draw board and do it.


I played briefly with the new Bowtech carbon bow and it's pretty stiff, I'm sure it's not by mistake.


I haven't messed with carbon in a few years. I was an early user, had one of the first Hoyt carbon on the east coast actually. Juice got to where it wasn't worth the squeeze for me.

My one and only carbon was a defiant 34 it was scary to watch that riser flex is a press I’ll gladly loose a half pound that deal with all that again


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[cuttingedge]

I haven't messed with it in a few years. I remember getting around double the deflection with carbon versus aluminum, but a lot of factors go into it. It's interesting to me how short the RX7 riser got, the ultra is still long, but I'd bet the limbs are a way lower deflection and those cams aren't aggressive, so I suspect less pressure on the longer riser.


You can test in a draw board, I feel more comfortable doing it in a press, a bow sitting at full draw always seems sketchy to me. If you want to just test risers overall you would support at the limb pockets and hang a weight on them and measure how much it moves just like an arrow spine. But easy to stick in a press or draw board and do it.


I played briefly with the new Bowtech carbon bow and it's pretty stiff, I'm sure it's not by mistake.


I haven't messed with carbon in a few years. I was an early user, had one of the first Hoyt carbon on the east coast actually. Juice got to where it wasn't worth the squeeze for me.

The bowtech should be still. It weighs as much as an aluminum bow. Mathews should have a very rigid riser also, they are always heavy.

And squishing a bow in a press isn't an accurate way to test for straightness. There was a guy who tested for it using lasers and a draw mechanism to see how the dry cycle affected rigidity or vice versa. Can't remember his channel.

It's funny to me how trends in bow design changed over the years. Bows like the HeliM were intentionally made to be a very light hunting bow. "Slim was in", and overall bow width was considerably narrower. And those bows tuned and shot well, riser flex or not.

It's easy to get caught up in all of "advancements" that are engineered to get you to buy new bows.

 

[Billy Goat]

The bowtech should be still. It weighs as much as an aluminum bow. Mathews should have a very rigid riser also, they are always heavy.

And squishing a bow in a press isn't an accurate way to test for straightness. There was a guy who tested for it using lasers and a draw mechanism to see how the dry cycle affected rigidity or vice versa. Can't remember his channel.

It's funny to me how trends in bow design changed over the years. Bows like the HeliM were intentionally made to be a very light hunting bow. "Slim was in", and overall bow width was considerably narrower. And those bows tuned and shot well, riser flex or not.

It's easy to get caught up in all of "advancements" that are engineered to get you to buy new bows.

How is pressing a bow not a reasonable way to check how the riser handles the pressure of the draw cycle?

The point is to measure deflection, either the strings put the pressure on the limbs, or a press does. Don't need lasers, it's easy to just use a straight edge and measure off the pockets.


I agree things change, and it's interesting.

All bows are heavy compared to 12 years ago. Most were sub 4# then it seems, and pretty easy to tune with yokes.


Mechanicals were all the rage, they aren't picky on arrow flight. Now fixed are En Vogue again, to some extent, and what you could get away with when you didn't have vanes on the front, you can't once they are there.
Yes, pun intended.

 

[MattB]

Hoyt is due for a new cam system since it's been three years of HBX variants.

I want a "turbo" bow on the RX-7's riser.

Hoyt’s custom shop could probably build you that very bow.

Funny how guys get hung up on how a how looks. That is about the last thing I personally care about.

 

[wind gypsy]

People I trust have long said the carbon bows deflect more than the AL counterparts with similar specs from the same companies. The ones I've had or shot also seem to have more vibration and noise. I did own a Carbon Air 34 ecs for a while and it was noisy AF.

Much like carbon rifle barrels it seems like consumers don't give a shit and want to spend more on something that frequently is physically inferior to a cheaper metal alternative. Its expensive and it's carbon, it has to be good!