2022 Oregon Archery Elk Proposal

[roosiebull]

I’m familiar with the coast.

I don’t think ODFW has released tag numbers yet and I think the public meetings are in June and finalized tag numbers in September.

No one will know how pressure settles unless it’s adopted and given 3 years.

There are always going to be pockets of pressure and pockets of nil. But right now, given it’s an “opportunity state” the opportunity areas will shift, maybe in due course ODFW will feel the need to decrease over-crowding on the coast?

I’d also wager most NR that are putting in for the Blues arent going to hunt General coast. I could be wrong but I just don’t see it.

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My strategy for mitigating pressure on the coast is heavily promote elk hunting in Idaho and Colorado... it’s hard to get around over here, too thick, can’t see nothing, loud, elk don’t bugle, and it’s crowded.... Colorado on the other hand!!

 

[BRTreedogs]

That would of worked in the past but Idaho cut tags and Colorado is to far.
So move over you'll see me in 2022

 

[DCAN]

Interesting discussion. Having hunted Oregon for about 50 years now, boy have things changed. I'm surprised the loss of hunting areas hasn't been factored into this conversation. Timber companies closing off areas, leasing large tracks of ground and so on. I remember bow season on the coast when clear cuts and burning were still the norm. Tried hunting a USFS thinning lately? Good luck with that. I remember hunting the Eagle Caps when a bugle would bring several responses, and they weren't from other hunters.
I really hope ODFW is (finally) trying to manage for the health of the game populations, and not just the $$$. That would be a welcome change.

 

[Flyjunky]

Interesting discussion. Having hunted Oregon for about 50 years now, boy have things changed. I'm surprised the loss of hunting areas hasn't been factored into this conversation. Timber companies closing off areas, leasing large tracks of ground and so on. I remember bow season on the coast when clear cuts and burning were still the norm. Tried hunting a USFS thinning lately? Good luck with that. I remember hunting the Eagle Caps when a bugle would bring several responses, and they weren't from other hunters.
I really hope ODFW is (finally) trying to manage for the health of the game populations, and not just the $$$. That would be a welcome change.

Not gonna happen. ODFW only cares about the $$$, and in their short sightedness that means opportunity and not quality. Quality, while it may take a while, would eventually bring in way more $$$ than they get now. Look at some of the discussions about Wyoming or Montana and percentage that NR's pay towards the game departments budget.

 

[DCAN]

Not gonna happen. ODFW only cares about the $$$, and in their short sightedness that means opportunity and not quality. Quality, while it may take a while, would eventually bring in way more $$$ than they get now. Look at some of the discussions about Wyoming or Montana and percentage that NR's pay towards the game departments budget.

I was trying to be hopeful, however, I agree with you. For most of my career in a "sister" agency to ODFW I was able to peak behind their curtain. That was a view I wish I'd never seen. I did get to know a few highly impressive bio's, but they were stifled by the agency politics. Want to know what really got the hair loss/asian lice thing going? They know but will never publicly admit to anything. Want to know what they do with statistics which might look bad for them? Nothing to see here, move along.
There is a reason I still refer to that agency as the "Oregon Department of Failure and Waste".

 

[wapitibob]

Not gonna happen. ODFW only cares about the $$$, and in their short sightedness that means opportunity and not quality. Quality, while it may take a while, would eventually bring in way more $$$ than they get now. Look at some of the discussions about Wyoming or Montana and percentage that NR's pay towards the game departments budget.

Decades ago Oregon hunters told ODFW they wanted opportunity over quality and that’s what they have. Oregon hunters are getting exactly what they asked for. If they gave two shits about the herds they would have been knocking down Odfw’s front door demanding tag cuts as soon as measure 18 eliminated effective predator management.
Go read 200+ Facebook posts and you’ll see the only thing joe hunter cares about is losing his tag.

 

[Flyjunky]

Decades ago Oregon hunters told ODFW they wanted opportunity over quality and that’s what they have. Oregon hunters are getting exactly what they asked for. If they gave two shits about the herds they would have been knocking down Odfw’s front door demanding tag cuts as soon as measure 18 eliminated effective predator management.
Go read 200+ Facebook posts and you’ll see the only thing joe hunter cares about is losing his tag.

oh, I know that's what Oregon "hunters" want, I just don't agree with it. To me, having game managed for opportunity lets ODFW off the hook for doing anything to help the herds. As long as Oregon hunters just get an opportunity that's good enough....total bullshit.

It's so shortsighted it's ridiculous, and I'm getting to the point that I'm only going to start hunting out of state.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Were the number 2 state for total elk population.
Why exactly do we need to limit opertunity?

 

[Flyjunky]

Were the number 2 state for total elk population.
Why exactly do we need to limit opertunity?

maybe that's true but I'd really question those numbers.

Why limit opportunity? Because people are complaining about overcrowding, our bull/cow ratio is in the toilet, numbers are declining.

Let me ask you this. All things being equal (time, cost, tag availability, etc) would you rather hunt Oregon or Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, etc?

Would you rather hunt Wenaha, Mt. Emily, Walla Walla, Ochocco, Heppner, Silvies? Why do the NE big 3 offer such coveted tags?

There's a reason why when the topic of elk is brought up in most forums that Oregon is rarely in the conversation and it's not just because NR tags are limited.

 

[BRTreedogs]

maybe that's true but I'd really question those numbers.

Why limit opportunity? Because people are complaining about overcrowding, our bull/cow ratio is in the toilet, numbers are declining.

Let me ask you this. All things being equal (time, cost, tag availability, etc) would you rather hunt Oregon or Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Arizona, Colorado, etc?

Would you rather hunt Wenaha, Mt. Emily, Walla Walla, Ochocco, Heppner, Silvies? Why do the NE big 3 offer such coveted tags?

There's a reason why when the topic of elk is brought up in most forums that Oregon is rarely in the conversation and it's not just because NR tags are limited.

Personally I think the over crowding whiners are lazy and or do not know how to find elk.

And if the dont like the crowding they can stay home.
But don't rope me into some bs where I can't even try. We have trophy units if they don't like general they can head there.

 

[Flyjunky]

Personally I think the over crowding whiners are lazy and or do not know how to find elk.

And if the dont like the crowding they can stay home.
But don't rope me into some bs where I can't even try. We have trophy units if they don't like general they can head there.

So the people who complain of overcrowding are whiners yet your whining about the new regulations? Ok, got it.

If you don't like the regulations maybe you can stay home instead of whining.

Also, you avoided the other parts of my question.

BTW, I don't even bow hunt but I'd like to see them also put a choose your weapon regulation in as well. That would help with opportunity. Instead of guys putting in for a big 3 rifle tag, not drawing it, and then buy a general bow tag, it would make them choose.

 

[BRTreedogs]

So the people who complain of overcrowding are whiners yet your whining about the new regulations? Ok, got it.

If you don't like the regulations maybe you can stay home instead of whining.

Also, you avoided the other parts of my question.

BTW, I don't even bow hunt but I'd like to see them also put a choose your weapon regulation in as well. That would help with opportunity. Instead of guys putting in for a big 3 rifle tag, not drawing it, and then buy a general bow tag, it would make them choose.

Its not possible for me to hunt Emily or Wenaha in my entire life.
If you're 1 point behind you'll never catch it.
Maybe if there is a mass die off of boomers.

Even the mid level rifle units you can only get a few in your life. Yee haw.

 

[BRTreedogs]

If the elk do need help, or reduce crowding im all for a first come first served. Where I still have a chance at getting a tag.
But a draw. Really?

 

[Flyjunky]

Its not possible for me to hunt Emily or Wenaha in my entire life.
If you're 1 point behind you'll never catch it.
Maybe if there is a mass die off of boomers.

Even the mid level rifle units you can only get a few in your life. Yee haw.

You always have the chance to draw those tags in the 25% pool, correct?

Ok, let's approach this from another angle.

I can think of quite a few other states that have general hunts (both deer and elk) that residents can draw virtually every year which have better quality than a unit in Oregon that takes 15+ years to draw. We supposedly have the 2nd biggest Elk herd so why the disconnect? It isn't because of predators so don't even go there. It isn't habitat.

How come other states can manage for both higher quality and more opportunity, longer seasons, more NR hunters, etc? My theory is because the hunters of Oregon only care about opportunity, that's it. Like I said before, there is no pressure on ODFW to actually manage the game. If the numbers of animals get out of whack, they just change the numbers or offer some more cow/doe hunts to get those numbers lower so the bull/buck ratio looks better. Only caring about opportunity is going to eventually lead us to less opportunity.

 

[Flyjunky]

If the elk do need help, or reduce crowding im all for a first come first served. Where I still have a chance at getting a tag.
But a draw. Really?

I'm with you there. I'd like to see Oregon do away with the points system and go to either first come first served or a total random draw.

I'd also like to see them eliminate all spike and most cow hunts.

My main point is that just calling for opportunity isn't going to help anything.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I'm with you there. I'd like to see Oregon do away with the points system and go to either first come first served or a total random draw.

I'd also like to see them eliminate all spike and most cow hunts.

My main point is that just calling for opportunity isn't going to help anything.

Like I said before if go trad only.
There are 25% of tags allocated to random.
That doesn't mean its 25% draw odds.

But so far my experience in Oregon is the draw is absolutely hopeless. The units I apply for just keep jumping.

I'm not sure the answer because I do value ranchers provide for winter range.
But when I was at a meeting and the bio said they harvest 2,000 tags a year on damage in the john day valley alone i about pooped my drawers.
I'm not sure a bunch of transferable tags and ranchers that won't left general public hunt is the answer.
They are trying to fix that with the newer otc damage tag.
But let's get some money to expand access yes or whatever its called.
If they really want elk off there ranch open it up

 

[DCAN]

oh, I know that's what Oregon "hunters" want, I just don't agree with it. To me, having game managed for opportunity lets ODFW off the hook for doing anything to help the herds. As long as Oregon hunters just get an opportunity that's good enough....total bullshit.

It's so shortsighted it's ridiculous, and I'm getting to the point that I'm only going to start hunting out of state.

I don't think you are alone in your out of state ideas. The last few years, prior to my retiring, that sediment was really building in the elk hunters I spoke with. Better to have a quality hunt every couple years than a frustrating junk hunt every year. That feeling IS known to ODFW, and they were starting to worry about future funding, based on lack of hunter interest. Once again, back to the almighty $$. Maybe ODFW could better serve the people who pay their way if they quit doing research on why mud shrimp screw, and focused on things which really matter to the people signing the checks.
Sooner or later people are going to get fed up with their "opportunity". At least for me. the opportunity to wait in line to glass a herbicide soaked clear cut on private timber land isn't worth much.
Maybe it's time to move out of Oregon and write a book.
Cheers

 

[roosiebull]

Were the number 2 state for total elk population.
Why exactly do we need to limit opertunity?

that's the deal. to say all i care about is losing my tag is total BS, it's nowhere close to true, but if there is no biological reason to limit opportunity, i want to hunt.... i will make it a good hunt, opportunity to me isn't just opportunity, like i said before, i would rather hunt near home every year than weneha every 3.... i love the otc hunting here. i certainly don't want to be trying to kill the last bull, but that's not the reality.

there are plenty of draw units and states if that's the experience you are after, if you don't like otc crowds, find a place that isn't crowded or don't participate, it's pretty straightforward. i think some are just disgruntled who don't do well here.... need something to blame.... any otc elk areas are going to have areas of over crowding and time periods of over crowding... many draw units are the same. it has become more popular, it will never be like it was 30yrs ago (but it's not because of lack of elk numbers) there are just more people out there.

everyone has an idea to fix it and get mad when others don't agree, then it turns to insults, and guess what? nothing changes.

 

[BRTreedogs]

that's the deal. to say all i care about is losing my tag is total BS, it's nowhere close to true, but if there is no biological reason to limit opportunity, i want to hunt.... i will make it a good hunt, opportunity to me isn't just opportunity, like i said before, i would rather hunt near home every year than weneha every 3.... i love the otc hunting here. i certainly don't want to be trying to kill the last bull, but that's not the reality.

there are plenty of draw units and states if that's the experience you are after, if you don't like otc crowds, find a place that isn't crowded or don't participate, it's pretty straightforward. i think some are just disgruntled who don't do well here.... need something to blame.... any otc elk areas are going to have areas of over crowding and time periods of over crowding... many draw units are the same. it has become more popular, it will never be like it was 30yrs ago (but it's not because of lack of elk numbers) there are just more people out there.

everyone has an idea to fix it and get mad when others don't agree, then it turns to insults, and guess what? nothing changes.

I think alot of guys get to Wenaha after 20 years and don't know how to hunt Elk either. Idk the success rate but doubt its 100%

I've hunted draw units. And there not that much better imo

 

[Oregon Bow Hiker]

I live on the coast. My biggest complaint to East going a draw is the added pressure it will bring us. Don’t get me wrong I like to spend a week East every year in a unit that will now be a draw. However I hunt here as well and it’s getting to be pretty populated already. I can only imagine what our general season will bring.

I totally agree man. I’ve sent lots of feedback regarding this. Western Oregon archery hunting will be worse than it’s become the past few years. I swear hunter numbers have doubled.


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