1911’s in general, 9mm versions specifically

Thought this is worth a share - Rob (RCSchauland) is the pistol smith that built Springfield Professionals, Les Baers, and designed ACWs.

Truly one of if not THE most knowledgeable men on earth regarding this subject. His custom guns are 6-10k + 12 months.

Someone asked him what it takes to get a 9mm running and this is his response

Dude makes some cool guns, and I can respect that. And his reliability points are solid, though he'd be better off focusing on minimizing friction surface with fluting and surface texturing, and low-friction coatings, than just polishing - if reliability is his main focus.

But if I had to speak truth...frankly, he's about 20 years too late to the party. I literally saw nothing on his website that wasn't being done in the 1990s, and there was quite a bit being done back then that I also don't see on his guns.

Here's the thing - technology and engineering have moved far beyond the capabilities of hand-built 1911s and the tools available to one-man shops, making the custom smiths almost irrelevant to CCW and duty users. That's also why they're a dying breed.

Not talking about the semi-custom stuff coming out of places like Atlas, Nighthawk, etc, which is closer to "building" than "gunsmithing", once they figured out the engineering and precision-machining of each part. And while Staccato seems to be the first to have Glockified 1911s in terms of precision scaled-machining, engineering reliability insights, and cost-effectiveness - they won't be the only ones to figure it out. Competition will continue to go up as costs continue to go down.

And it's going to cause a near-extinction event for genuine, custom 1911 gunsmiths. Real ones, not builders. And that's sad. Eventually, the survivors will become some American analogue to the British bespoke-gunmaking industry, like Westley Richards or Holland & Holland. Because there won't be an ecological space left for them to survive in otherwise.

Hand-built 1911s are pretty much getting relegated to 3 categories, at this point: 1) they're becoming "art guns" and status symbols; 2) they're being made as paeans to the dying-out Fudds of yesteryear, who are often the heroes of these younger smiths or the guy commissioning the work; and 3) most rarely, there are some functional guns being built in high-performance calibers, to some unrealistic fantasy-spec the owner commissions them for (think, 9x23 Win, .40 Super, etc). Or, as "grail guns" that were the childhood fantasy of a middle-aged guy who now has money - buying what was considered cool back when he was in high school.

The car world saw something similar - the horsepower and performance that used to require savant-like motorhead genius is now simply bolt-on horsepower you can order off a website. EGW's 1911 parts lineup would have been almost impossible for even the best custom 1911 smiths to do, given the precision machining, heat-treating, metallurgy, and low-cost-through-scale that EGW just builds into their stuff, partially just as an artifact of their tooling. The stuff that Terry Tussey, Heine, Novak, Les Baer, and Bill Wilson would have been hard-pressed to accomplish in the 1970s, 80s, and even 90s is now, quite often, just relatively cheap plug-and-play parts installation.

There's nothing today's custom smiths are doing that's going to enhance reliability more than what you're already seeing Staccato do, or even what Dan Wesson did in its reliability engineering around the DWX line. Even Kimber, finally, seems to have nailed it as well with its 2K11 - a gun that would have been a $6000-$8000 minimum from a custom smith, with 6-12 months wait, is $1800, available in hundreds of local gun shops today, cash and carry out the door.

The world has changed and is moving on. I genuinely hope the younger custom smiths find a way to survive. One thing I'm certain of though - it won't be through improving the 1911 as a carry or duty gun, especially at carry or duty prices.
 
Dude makes some cool guns, and I can respect that. And his reliability points are solid, though he'd be better off focusing on minimizing friction surface with fluting and surface texturing, and low-friction coatings, than just polishing - if reliability is his main focus.

But if I had to speak truth...frankly, he's about 20 years too late to the party. I literally saw nothing on his website that wasn't being done in the 1990s, and there was quite a bit being done back then that I also don't see on his guns.

Here's the thing - technology and engineering have moved far beyond the capabilities of hand-built 1911s and the tools available to one-man shops, making the custom smiths almost irrelevant to CCW and duty users. That's also why they're a dying breed.

Not talking about the semi-custom stuff coming out of places like Atlas, Nighthawk, etc, which is closer to "building" than "gunsmithing", once they figured out the engineering and precision-machining of each part. And while Staccato seems to be the first to have Glockified 1911s in terms of precision scaled-machining, engineering reliability insights, and cost-effectiveness - they won't be the only ones to figure it out. Competition will continue to go up as costs continue to go down.

And it's going to cause a near-extinction event for genuine, custom 1911 gunsmiths. Real ones, not builders. And that's sad. Eventually, the survivors will become some American analogue to the British bespoke-gunmaking industry, like Westley Richards or Holland & Holland. Because there won't be an ecological space left for them to survive in otherwise.

Hand-built 1911s are pretty much getting relegated to 3 categories, at this point: 1) they're becoming "art guns" and status symbols; 2) they're being made as paeans to the dying-out Fudds of yesteryear, who are often the heroes of these younger smiths or the guy commissioning the work; and 3) most rarely, there are some functional guns being built in high-performance calibers, to some unrealistic fantasy-spec the owner commissions them for (think, 9x23 Win, .40 Super, etc). Or, as "grail guns" that were the childhood fantasy of a middle-aged guy who now has money - buying what was considered cool back when he was in high school.

The car world saw something similar - the horsepower and performance that used to require savant-like motorhead genius is now simply bolt-on horsepower you can order off a website. EGW's 1911 parts lineup would have been almost impossible for even the best custom 1911 smiths to do, given the precision machining, heat-treating, metallurgy, and low-cost-through-scale that EGW just builds into their stuff, partially just as an artifact of their tooling. The stuff that Terry Tussey, Heine, Novak, Les Baer, and Bill Wilson would have been hard-pressed to accomplish in the 1970s, 80s, and even 90s is now, quite often, just relatively cheap plug-and-play parts installation.

There's nothing today's custom smiths are doing that's going to enhance reliability more than what you're already seeing Staccato do, or even what Dan Wesson did in its reliability engineering around the DWX line. Even Kimber, finally, seems to have nailed it as well with its 2K11 - a gun that would have been a $6000-$8000 minimum from a custom smith, with 6-12 months wait, is $1800, available in hundreds of local gun shops today, cash and carry out the door.

The world has changed and is moving on. I genuinely hope the younger custom smiths find a way to survive. One thing I'm certain of though - it won't be through improving the 1911 as a carry or duty gun, especially at carry or duty prices.
I'm sure you know a lot of things and can do a lot of things, but these diatribes are so self aggrandizing I can't even begin to take you seriously.

This is a 9mm 1911 thread. Rob builds a good one. If you do too please drop a link, I might buy one.
 
Well done commanders are very reliable. The shootability difference isn’t going to be noticed by most.

What about with the cheaper off the shelf options that will likely need a little work? Would a commander 9mm have better odds of functioning with less effort than a government 9mm, or vice versa? Not so much can one make it work, but does one slide size inherently pair better with the 9mm cartridge over the other with less tuning.

The reason I ask is from what I’ve read, part of the reason colt reduced slide length on the first 9mm/commanders was to lighten slide mass to better accommodate the lighter 9mm. But that was a long time ago, and I’m sure a lot of factors have changed since then.
 
What about with the cheaper off the shelf options that will likely need a little work? Would a commander 9mm have better odds of functioning with less effort than a government 9mm, or vice versa? Not so much can one make it work, but does one slide size inherently pair better with the 9mm cartridge over the other with less tuning.

The reason I ask is from what I’ve read, part of the reason colt reduced slide length on the first 9mm/commanders was to lighten slide mass to better accommodate the lighter 9mm. But that was a long time ago, and I’m sure a lot of factors have changed since then.

I'm curious about this as well. Generally, is one easier to deal with than the other?
 
In my continued quest to prove @Formidilosus wrong and an insatiable desire to tinker I bought a Tisas Night stalker 9mm with the threaded barrel (@Unknown Suppressors promised to make a cool option).
IMG_8781.jpeg
Took it apart, wiped some oil off and took it out back.
First 50 rounds cheap federal 147 gr, no issues.

Next up 115gr Norma, the cheap stuff. IMG_8774.jpegIMG_8775.jpeg
2 malfunctions

Next ZSR 9mm, cheapest brass med case 9mm to be found at the time. IMG_8777.jpeg

Let’s see if I can follow directions and if Form can help a blind squirrel. Big surprise, I’m no gunsmith, not terribly patient either.

Post 150 rounds.
IMG_8782.jpegIMG_8783.jpeg

A little blunt persuasion until the BPE arrives. IMG_8784.jpeg

This looks familiar
IMG_8785.jpeg
Dremel
image.jpg

Included mags feel cheap, mail lady refusing to deliver new mags/mail until I raise the mailbox, so I’ll continue w these.

Time to go annoy the neighbors.
 
Well. Not 💯. 105 rounds in w the 147gr
IMG_8787.jpeg

150 rounds, the one failure to eject. I might need to polish the feed ramp a little, the first couple rounds wanted to catch? Seemed fine after it got a little dirty.

Working on impacting center (instead of left) from draw and shoot single round, this is a known personal IMG_8788.jpegissue You can tell where I was getting ahead of my self on speed. I should say I’ve done a little training w red dot, very little shooting iron sights.
 
Well. Not 💯. 105 rounds in w the 147gr
View attachment 920837

150 rounds, the one failure to eject. I might need to polish the feed ramp a little, the first couple rounds wanted to catch? Seemed fine after it got a little dirty.

Working on impacting center (instead of left) from draw and shoot single round, this is a known personal View attachment 920838issue You can tell where I was getting ahead of my self on speed.

Cool gun. How are you lubricating it?
 
I left the factory oil on the friction points. I suppose I could give it a little evo or light weight synthetic at this point. Just wanted to see how it did out of the box.

1911s have a lot of friction surface compared to other designs, and generally have higher lubrication needs. If you only got a couple of malfunctions with that gun out of the box after wiping it down, that's actually a good sign. Try a heavier weight motor oil on it, anywhere you now see rub wear, and anywhere you know the parts are moving against each other. 10w or even 20w-something would be great, but 0w or 5w would work better than almost anything marketed as a gun oil. It'll make a big difference.
 
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