16” max length barrel. What caliber are you going with?

[AaronMColeman]

I’ve killed a cow at 650 with a 16” suppressed.308 but I get paid to shoot about 1200 rounds a year through that gun and had ZERO doubts about the shot.

Ive killed and seen bulls killed with 6.5 creeds outta 24” barrels. 6.5 prc outta a shorty would probably get you near the same velocity. I liked what I saw from the 6.5 over the .308 both using hornady eldx.

6.5 prc would be my pick.


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Plus the 6.5PRC is way sexier than the .308...and much more exotic (as of 2020) than the creedmore

I agree that the 6.5PRC would probably be a really good choice for a shorter barrel. Only issue I see with that is ammo availability and future proofing, not really knowing if the PRC is gonna stick long term or not. I reload so 6.5PRC would be fine, I could find a weight the 16" barrel works well with and produce a load that gets good accuracy and velocity. If you don't reload you may have issues finding factory ammo, and then finding factory ammo that works well out of a short barrel as most of it will likely be designed for longer rifles. That's why I would stick with my original recommendation of .308, mainly due to massive availability of factory ammo, and, I'm not 100% sure yet, but I think the .308 will be around for a long long long long long while!

I think the key is that you shoot a lot and had zero doubts about a 650y shot. I shoot a lot with a 30-06 and 650 would not be a "zero doubt" for me. The point, as in most of these "which caliber" threads, get to a point where the shot you want to take is no problem at all. Most anything 6.5mm or over will be fine if the operator is good.

 

[Formidilosus]

That's why I would stick with my original recommendation of .308, mainly due to massive availability of factory ammo,

What factory 308 ammo will maintain sufficient velocity for upset at 600 yard from a 16” barrel?

 

[Wapiti1]

Just looking at the simple numbers you will need roughly 2600fps at the muzzle with a 0.6 G1 BC bullet to get to 1800fps comfortably at 600 yards. Is 1800fps a critical speed? Depends on the bullet. 1600fps might work, but you get less margin for error.

I was thinking .338 due to it being easier to get a larger diameter bullet moving faster than smaller just due to pressure on the larger base. Same reason you can get a .35 Whelen moving a 180gr bullet faster than a 30-06. My thought falls down with the BC. You need a good 225gr .338 bullet to get a good BC and that will be tough to get to 2600fps in 16". Possible, but why bother with that much muzzle blast.

Jeremy

 

[AaronMColeman]

What factory 308 ammo will maintain sufficient velocity for upset at 600 yard from a 16” barrel?

No clue. My original post recommended a longer barrel and mentioned that very issue.

But, if he's set on a shorter barrel, it'll be easier to find .308 ammo that may work than to find 6.5PRC factory ammo that may work.

 

[dwent]

Plus the 6.5PRC is way sexier than the .308...and much more exotic (as of 2020) than the creedmore

I agree that the 6.5PRC would probably be a really good choice for a shorter barrel. Only issue I see with that is ammo availability and future proofing, not really knowing if the PRC is gonna stick long term or not. I reload so 6.5PRC would be fine, I could find a weight the 16" barrel works well with and produce a load that gets good accuracy and velocity. If you don't reload you may have issues finding factory ammo, and then finding factory ammo that works well out of a short barrel as most of it will likely be designed for longer rifles. That's why I would stick with my original recommendation of .308, mainly due to massive availability of factory ammo, and, I'm not 100% sure yet, but I think the .308 will be around for a long long long long long while!

I think the key is that you shoot a lot and had zero doubts about a 650y shot. I shoot a lot with a 30-06 and 650 would not be a "zero doubt" for me. The point, as in most of these "which caliber" threads, get to a point where the shot you want to take is no problem at all. Most anything 6.5mm or over will be fine if the operator is good.

Lapua recently announced they’ll be producing 6.5 and 300 PRC brass next year. You can pre order it through places like grafs as I understand. I’d say that’s a good indicator that the PRCs will be here to stay, but only time will tell.

 

[Formidilosus]

No clue. My original post recommended a longer barrel and mentioned that very issue.

But, if he's set on a shorter barrel, it'll be easier to find .308 ammo that may work than to find 6.5PRC factory ammo that may work.

There is no factory available loaded 308 ammo that will beat the PRC at any barrel length. I’m not sure what the “may work” with the PRC or any of them is about. Muzzle velocity and BC. 6.5 PRC works from a 16” barrel. 6.5 CM works from a 16” barrel. 308 will not get sufficient impact velocities at 600 with any common loading. It can be used that far, but wound channels will be small.

 

[trophyhill]

So how does extra “energy” help? And how much extra “energy” is required to turn a bad shot into a good shot?

I googled big game bullet energy. This is one of a few videos that popped up.

 

[Formidilosus]

I googled big game bullet energy. This is one of a few videos that popped up.

So you don’t know the answers to the questions I posed?

“The real gunsmith” says some of the most ignorant things on the internet, and should be taken with grain of salt.

 

[AaronMColeman]

So you don’t know the answers to the questions I posed?

“The real gunsmith” says some of the most ignorant things on the internet, and should be taken with grain of salt.

ok so what's the answer to the OP's question in your opinion ?

I think the answer is a 16" barrel is a bad idea at 600y with any ammo (unless you shot A TON). I think the 6.5PRC is a killer round but if you don't reload it's hard to find and who knows about long term. I think the .308 gives a lot more options from factory ammo, which makes it easier for a non-reloader to test out differnt configurations to find an accurate one at 600y. But, again, the problem, in my opinion, is the premise that a 16" barrel is going to be able to stabalize any round for a 600y shot. I say "may work" because I don't think a 16" barrel at 600y is a good idea for most shooters with any caliber.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, just trying to learn more. Forgive me if you have answered the question or provided any input, all i've seen is shooting down other people's ideas.

 

[trophyhill]

So you don’t know the answers to the questions I posed?

“The real gunsmith” says some of the most ignorant things on the internet, and should be taken with grain of salt.

No, I don’t know. That’s why I googled it. You don’t know either or you wouldn’t of asked. Since you don’t know, how can you claim the information he gave is bad advice? Looked like he said 1800 to 2000. Is that number more? Or less?

On another note, the homework I did on rifles prior to buying my 7 mag a few weeks ago says a .308 is not a 600 yard hunting rifle for big game. It simply lacks the energy at longer distances. Although it is an excellent choice for big game out to around 400 yards according to what I’ve read. And a Creedmore is actually a needsmore when it comes to hunting big game. This coming from a friend who has hunted and killed just about all of North America’s big game. Although he did say it’s a good antelope rifle out to a couple hundred yards.

 

[AaronMColeman]

On another note, the homework I did on rifles prior to buying my 7 mag a few weeks ago says a .308 is not a 600 yard hunting rifle for big game. It simply lacks the energy at longer distances. Although it is an excellent choice for big game out to around 400 yards according to what I’ve read.

Agreed. If you wanna shoot that far I think you have to go with one of the bigger magnums (300wm, 7rm, 300rum, weatherby mags or longer barrel with a smaller 30 loads of other options not listed here etc.). If you wanna shoot shoot a 16" barrel I think you have to be realistic about what you're shooting and how far.

 

[Formidilosus]

ok so what's the answer to the OP's question in your opinion ?

There are posts on the first and second pages.

I think the answer is a 16" barrel is a bad idea at 600y with any ammo (unless you shot A TON).

What does “shooting a ton” have to do with 16” barrels? And why would anyone be taking 600 yard shots at game without shooting a ton”?

I think the 6.5PRC is a killer round but if you don't reload it's hard to find and who knows about long term.

There is no issue long term with 6.5 PRC. Hornady isn’t Remington

I think the .308 gives a lot more options from factory ammo, which makes it easier for a non-reloader to test out differnt configurations to find an accurate one at 600y.

Once again- there no 308 available factory options that will do what the OP wants. “Accuracy” is not terminal ballistics.

But, again, the problem, in my opinion, is the premise that a 16" barrel is going to be able to stabalize any round for a 600y shot. I say "may work" because I don't think a 16" barrel at 600y is a good idea for most shooters with any caliber.

Again- what are you talking about “stabilizing in a 16” barrel”? Either the bullet is stable or it’s not. What is your experience that says a 16” barrel isn’t a good idea for most shooters at 600 yards? How does a 20” barrel change that?

I'm not trying to pick a fight, just trying to learn more. Forgive me if you have answered the question or provided any input, all i've seen is shooting down other people's ideas.

It helps if you read instead of rushing to post.

 

[Formidilosus]

No, I don’t know. That’s why I googled it.

That’s why I asked

You don’t know either or you wouldn’t of asked. Since you don’t know, how can you claim the information he gave is bad advice? Looked like he said 1800 to 2000. Is that number more? Or less?

I asked rhetorically. I do not post about things I am not intimately familiar with.
How deep will a bullet penetrate with 1,800 Ft- lbs of energy? How about 2,000ft-lbs? How wide will the wound be?... Yes, that’s rhetorical.

Ft-lbs of energy is not a wounding mechanism. It tells you nothing about what a bullet will do in tissue: not how deep, nor how wide, nor the shape, nor at what range. It is a useless metric in terminal ballistics.

On another note, the homework I did on rifles prior to buying my 7 mag a few weeks ago says a .308 is not a 600 yard hunting rifle for big game. It simply lacks the energy at longer distances. Although it is an excellent choice for big game out to around 400 yards according to what I’ve read. And a Creedmore is actually a needsmore when it comes to hunting big game. This coming from a friend who has hunted and killed just about all of North America’s big game. Although he did say it’s a good antelope rifle out to a couple hundred yards.

So in a few weeks you went from seeking answers, to giving them? Regale me with all the experience you have with 308’s (at any range) and with 6.5 CM’s?

 

[Formidilosus]

All with 6.5’s, all at 600+/- yard 16” 6.5CM impact velocities (5k DA).

 

[woods89]

All with 6.5’s, all at 600+/- yard 16” 6.5CM impact velocities (5k DA).

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Which bullet was this?
I will be carrying a 22'' 6.5 Creedmoor in the mountains for a 4th rifle elk hunt next year if everything works out. I have a load worked up with the 156 EOL at 2650, and also have 140 Elite Hunters and 130 TMK. I'm always interested in what is working best with this platform.

 

[Formidilosus]

Which bullet was this?
I will be carrying a 22'' 6.5 Creedmoor in the mountains for a 4th rifle elk hunt next year if everything works out. I have a load worked up with the 156 EOL at 2650, and also have 140 Elite Hunters and 130 TMK. I'm always interested in what is working best with this platform.

130 gr Berger OTM for two, 130gr Federal TA, 143gr ELD-X for two.

The 156gr Bergers will work great, the Elite Hunters do not upset as easily as I would want for any distance, the TMK will be fine.

It’s hard to top the all around performance with Berger VLD’s and heavy Hornady ELD-M’s and ELD-X’s.

 

[woods89]

130 gr Berger OTM for two, 130gr Federal TA, 143gr ELD-X for two.

The 156gr Bergers will work great, the Elite Hunters do not upset as easily as I would want for any distance, the TMK will be fine.

It’s hard to top the all around performance with Berger VLD’s and heavy Hornady ELD-M’s and ELD-X’s.

Thanks!
Likely I'll stick with the 156's, if I feel like it I may try the 147 ELD-M and see if my rifle likes them. It didn't like the 143 ELD-X as well as Bergers.
I only have a sample size of one 130 TMK kill, but if Sierra made a mid 140s TMK I'd be all over that........

 

[loadsandlattes]

Since this is my thread... Here’s a 6.5 CM 147gr ELDM at 320 yards on a mule deer. Entered quartering away behind the shoulder, bullet retrieved on the opposite shoulder armpit. He flinched, walked about 40 yds, and tipped over. Suppressed 16” creedmoor. This was last night.

 

[Kimber7man]

130 gr Berger OTM for two, 130gr Federal TA, 143gr ELD-X for two.

The 156gr Bergers will work great, the Elite Hunters do not upset as easily as I would want for any distance, the TMK will be fine.

It’s hard to top the all around performance with Berger VLD’s and heavy Hornady ELD-M’s and ELD-X’s.

My creed dotes on the Berger ammo with the 130 AR hybrid. Reckon I’ll try it on a few whitetails.

 

[EastMT]

I just started down this rabbit hole myself. I now have a 2 lb, 22” 308 barrel I’m cutting to 16.5”, Rem action, MPI 10oz ADL stock when they can make it. Likely a 2-7 Leupold, but have considered a reflex sight just for the challenge and weight.

I don’t really need the thing, but short, a little over 4 lbs, everything I want on it as far as trigger, action, safety, and not $3000. As of right now planning on 124 or 130 hammers.


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